Erin Patten (00:01.654)
Years ago, before any of this, before the meta business world, before the social media, before raw beauty, I had a clean beauty company in Detroit that was called Dayo. It was an acronym for Defy All Odds. And I hired this woman to help me figure out how to actually get people to fall in love with the brand. And not just buy it, I wanted people to actually love it, okay?
And so fast forward to now, she's now the author of an international bestseller called Brand Love. And it's a whole framework on the eight stages of how humans actually fall in love with brands. And I'm sitting here today, years later, having recently launched my second clean beauty brand. So when she reached out a few weeks ago and asked for a testimonial, I told her, let's do better. Okay. I was like, let's do better than a testimonial.
come on the Meta Business Millennial podcast and let's just catch up and talk. And so we are here and we really want to just talk about what we've actually built over the years. And this conversation is part reunion, part masterclass, part full circle moment. Okay. I kid you not. So welcome to the show, Lydia. So awesome to have you here today.
Lydia Michael (01:24.966)
Thank you for having me, Erin. What an intro. I didn't expect all of this.
Erin Patten (01:27.662)
Yes. It's just like at this stage of my podcast, there is so much alignment. It's just really beautiful. So I'm just so glad that I can have an intro like that and actually be real.
Lydia Michael (01:43.696)
I love that. I'm well.
Erin Patten (01:44.598)
Right? All right, so without further ado, I wanna jump into the questions here. I really want you to give the audience a version of you that doesn't fit in a bio, okay? So where did you actually come from and what road did you take to get here?
Lydia Michael (01:54.439)
Hmm.
Lydia Michael (02:00.935)
Where did I actually come from? That's such a big question. I feel like I have to start all the way at like birth. Yes, for sure. So I was born and raised in Germany. I spent half of my life there and then came to the US right after high school and really to reunite with my family. So it my parents and my sister.
Erin Patten (02:03.756)
Yes!
Erin Patten (02:10.112)
Literally.
Lydia Michael (02:29.476)
and I came over from Germany. A lot of our family, really all of our family has lived in Michigan for decades. And so we were kind of the only family still in Germany. And so we made our way across the ocean and, you know, the rest is kind of history. I've been in the U.S. since, even though I will say 10 years ago, and this was right before we met Aaron, I decided to go back to Germany for a couple of years to go to grad school. And so
That was a whole, was a very personal journey, but it was also the business journey that brought me to Blended Collective, which is right around the time we met. So yeah.
Erin Patten (03:12.622)
And this is not, I really am just curious, like, if most of your family was in the US, what brought your parents to Germany? That's just so rare, because your background's Middle Eastern, you're in Germany, like this is really, I would just say unique situation.
Lydia Michael (03:30.054)
Yeah, for sure. So I'm Chaldean and my family at the time, for the most part, moved over from Iraq to the US to Michigan. And my parents ended up in Germany. And so that's longer story, but they were in Germany and so wanted to stay there temporarily and fell in love with just being there and creating a life for themselves and
Erin Patten (03:46.286)
So interesting.
Lydia Michael (03:58.906)
you know, they were always very social and so had a great group of friends and really like their friends turned into family in a way. And so, you know, the three years that they wanted to stay there turned into 20 years. My dad was there. Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (04:11.777)
That is insane. That's insane. Okay. So getting back on script. So you and I met in the very early days, of course, of my entrepreneurship journey and my first beauty brand, which to this day is still my baby. Like, Dayo was so much built on my own hair journey, was built on my own story, was built on my own...
struggles, if you will, with my identity and my natural hair. And it's just so awesome that I'm wearing my hair naturally and curly today. I've been wearing extensions or braids or all kinds of stuff. And so I want you to just recall, if you can, what do you remember about Dale? What do you remember about working with me?
Lydia Michael (04:45.233)
I'm not.
Lydia Michael (04:59.068)
So I remember, so this was either late 2017 or 2018, right? I think it was in year one of blended collective. Yeah, yeah. So I was in year one of blended collective, was still working on building and growing my portfolio with different clients. And so I had also just come back the year prior from Germany after.
Erin Patten (05:05.354)
No.
Literally, was exactly that time period.
Lydia Michael (05:24.846)
you know, my two years there and I had just wrapped up a project with L'Oreal. Working there, yeah, I was working there for six months in the hair care department, doing product marketing for Garnier Fructis and I also wrote my master thesis with them on the topic of relaunching a hair care brand in the German market using the concept of brand love. So I had to share that because, you know, the way I came to you matters. And so I'm, you know, fast forward, I'm in the US.
Erin Patten (05:30.511)
that's right.
Lydia Michael (05:54.25)
And I remember seeing something about Dayo in the media and I don't recall the details, but I think that I had reached out to you guys kind of a cold call and it totally was not until this day. I'm not a cold call person. Right. And so the clients that I have that I've worked with, it's really, really rare that I just randomly will reach out and do a cold call to just get some business. It's just not part of how I do business, but
Erin Patten (06:04.343)
I think you did too.
Erin Patten (06:22.487)
Mm-hmm.
Lydia Michael (06:24.035)
I felt such a connection even before reaching out because one, I had just wrapped up this project in the haircare space and trying to grow my portfolio, not just finding clients, but finding the right clients. And so I truly felt like I could bring value to your business because you were in the right stages. And I'm like, what better way to connect, right? And so it ended up working out in its own way. so...
Erin Patten (06:40.449)
You really did.
Lydia Michael (06:50.661)
you know, working with you to answer your question of what do I remember about Dayo? I remember a whole lot. One, your case study is still on our website. And so that was a way for us to kind of reconnect as we were rebuilding and reassessing all of those case studies up there, But really just the passion that you had for the business. So...
Erin Patten (06:57.503)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (07:14.319)
The fact that the business was built on your own story, I think also brings a raw element and a very authentic way and feel to how you decided to push that product out there and click with people, right? And so that to me, think it's what also got my attention and I just wanted to be a part of it and help you build.
Erin Patten (07:38.222)
That's so beautiful. I love that. Okay, so on the professional side, you you talked about connecting with me and co-calling me. And I just, and I know that startups, especially year one, it's crazy. So I really would like for you to kind of time travel back then and, know, what was, what was about then, what was different, what's different now about the Glynda Collective?
with the book and how you scaled. I'm just really curious about how you've grown from then to now.
Lydia Michael (08:14.063)
It's been quite a journey. we're going on nine years this year. And I think in the early days, a lot of it was, even though there was some intentionality, like for instance, how we connected, right? And how we worked together, there was some intentionality, there was some strategy, but I would say it wasn't on the level it is today, right?
Erin Patten (08:15.799)
I'm
Erin Patten (08:37.847)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (08:38.607)
And so I'm kind of past the statistics. think it's, you know, five years as a small business owner, like once you make it past that timeline, you know, I think you're outside of that statistical realm, right? Like you made it in the small business world. So, but things also, what is it? Right. but I think I've become a lot more intentional and a lot more strategic with how I show up.
Erin Patten (08:51.797)
Yeah. Yeah. You're no longer a startup. You're no longer a startup.
Lydia Michael (09:07.025)
as a business owner, where I spend my time, the organizations that I connect with, right? Even the events that I go to. In the early days, a lot of it is you're building, you're trying to make a name for yourself as a business. You know, and sometimes you do things that even if you're not passionate about, you're like, okay, I'm just gonna do this, right? I'm gonna get my name out there. I want to create brand awareness. I want to create visibility. And so you end up doing a lot.
And sometimes that doesn't fit in with your goals or where you're trying to go. And so I really had to pause myself, or really the pandemic paused me, truth be told, when I had to slow down and not do so much and be everywhere all the time, but really scale back and ask myself, okay, where am I trying to go? What actions, activities, and events and all of that stuff that comes along with business, what is going to help me?
get closer to my North Star.
Erin Patten (10:06.967)
Yeah, I love that.
I love that. So,
Lydia Michael (10:10.725)
Yes. Yeah.
Erin Patten (10:14.593)
When you think about brand love, and I'm sure it has something to do kind of with this North Star piece, because a lot of times, and I have to just want to caveat before I jump in and more questions, that the pandemic was a super pause for the whole world. And I believe that in many ways this year too, I guess it's been like five, six years you can say, since the world started opening back up.
Lydia Michael (10:31.622)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (10:41.165)
or let's just say five years, and we're kind of like reflecting too, like wow, what has life been in the past five years, kind of another one of those kind of pregnant pauses. And I really would like for you to, and as you're thinking about kind of like your North Star, how would you define brand love? And you know, especially for someone who's never heard the term before, I really would like to understand, like not the textbook version, but really the raw, at the dinner table, what is brand love?
Lydia Michael (11:11.345)
Yeah. You know, it's funny you say not the textbook version because I don't know that there is a textbook version. So a few years ago when I wrote the book in 2022, I was doing a lot of research as part of my writing. And I even went back to my work that I had done with L'Oreal where I kind of did a deep dive really into brand love. And there is no textbook version. I had kind of had to create my own version when I wrote the book. And so I came up with a few different definitions, but
in the simple term, brand love is really this emotional connection between a brand and a customer. And if you dive a little bit deeper, it's the connection that is built on desire and affection. And the relationship is really meant to inspire trust and loyalty in the long run. So when we talk about brand love,
It's not this fluffy term or framework as sometimes people think, you know, that sounds good, but like, you know, what's brand love going to do for my business? Well, a lot of businesses are obviously focused on their sales and their profit and their bottom line, but really what's going to inspire all of that is are you able to build long-term relationships with your customers? Are you able to maintain that? Are you able to build trust? And even beyond loyalty, are people advocating for you?
in your business and what you're doing, right? So there's so many things that define brand love or even brand love drivers that I've defined that help you get to those different levels and stages.
Erin Patten (12:48.735)
I love that. And that's exactly how I operate as a customer and also as a business owner. And certainly on the customer side, the loyalty that I have to certain brands, particularly Gucci, everyone knows I'm a Gucci goddess, but there is that emotional connection and you know, like the Coca Colas of the world where people are genuinely like.
like love these brands. And, you know, as you talk about the concept, I'm so glad that you kind of were able to really articulate what it means without using jargon so that anyone could really understand. But we know that in your book, you did obviously have to define it and there is this eight part framework. So could you walk us through those eight parts in a way that's really simple and digestible for our listeners?
Lydia Michael (13:16.367)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (13:42.253)
Yeah, absolutely. So, and I don't think that the framework or the eight brand love stages was really a way to reinvent what's already out there, right? You've probably seen a lot of different marketing frameworks and this one is built similarly, but with brand love in mind, right? And so we start with the awareness, familiarity, likeness, trust, all of those things happen in the early stages because without them, you
you can't really connect, right? If somebody doesn't even know that you exist, they're not familiar with you, they don't like you, they don't, you all of those things are in the early stages. And that kind of helps us build that brand desire, right? So being able to build brand desire for your core audience is really important because especially when you're in the early stages of your business, it's difficult to build brand desire for everybody because it's also expensive and it requires a lot of resources.
And so because of that, always say, try to find your people early on and build brand love and desire with them, really desire. And when you get those people on your team, they're automatically voluntarily going to advocate for you, right? Because they're not just there for the product or the service. They actually believe in what you're building and what you're creating. And so you're really building these.
early stage fans, advocates, ambassadors, whatever you want to call them. And they're here to stay. They're the ones that are going to go out there and do the work for you without you having to tell them anything. And so those are the early stages and brand desire is one of those things. Now, as we continue in the stages and stage five is the brand trust. And this is where the relationship tips a little bit for the better.
Erin Patten (15:21.325)
I love that.
Lydia Michael (15:31.31)
Because when trust happens and I compare brand love, know, the brand customer relationship in the book to a person to person relationship. So if you think about your own relationships, be it in business or, you know, your personal life, many times we operate in a very similar way, right? If you don't trust someone that's in your life, it's really rare that you're going to progress with your relationship past that, right?
Erin Patten (15:57.876)
Agreed.
Lydia Michael (15:58.961)
let alone build that level of trust, love, loyalty, advocacy, all of those things that come later. And so it's similar with brands. It could take a really long time to build up that brand trust, sometimes even years, but it takes seconds for that to just crumble and dissipate. And with such a saturated market space, or like a crowded market space,
Erin Patten (16:16.629)
Agreed.
Lydia Michael (16:25.57)
it's very easy for us to replace the brands that we've become accustomed to using, right? And the one thing I want to focus on in those stages, and I think, know, with you kind of referencing Gucci earlier, there is a level of self-identification that plays a really big role across those eight brand love stages. And, you know, as you're going from desire through self-identification,
Erin Patten (16:46.4)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (16:53.872)
to even just this level of reflection, we connect with brands that are like us in a way. Not always, but many times we seek out the brands that reflect who we are as people, that mirror our values that we have, or sometimes it's even the fact that they're aspirational to who we want to be. And so that also psychologically,
Erin Patten (17:18.679)
Mm-hmm.
Lydia Michael (17:23.216)
explains why we might prefer, you know, a $5,000 bag instead of a $500 bag, right? When really at the end of the day, they hold your stuff the same exact way. I mean, there's really like in terms of functionality. Yeah, I mean, it could, it could both last you 20 or 30 years, right? So functionality is there, but we're really going now past functionality and past the rational. We're now moving into the emotional.
Erin Patten (17:30.668)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (17:34.591)
Yeah. In May from the same materials, more or less.
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (17:51.534)
And that's what we focus on a lot in our work now with Glenda Collective is how can we tap into both the rational and the emotional when we look at your marketing or your brand journey. And so that is what the focus is of not just the framework to help you reach that level of brand love, loyalty, and advocacy, but really also the core of how we operate now in the business and how we help our clients get to that next stage.
Erin Patten (18:20.843)
I love that. Yeah, because when you think about the trust, the desire obviously is there, but the trust is really what is the empathetic bridge, for lack of better words, it goes for that emotional bridge where it's just like, okay, now this is where the love is really starting to anchor in. And when you know that I'm gonna get what I...
Lydia Michael (18:40.717)
Okay.
Erin Patten (18:42.765)
that I desire every single time from this brand or more. Like it's an exceed my expectations. Like this is what, know, I'm thinking, I'm putting myself as like in a Gucci mind, you know, and then especially if you have, you add on layers of like service, customer service and gifting and you know, special events and you know, VIP experiences, then you just, then the trust is building and building and building. So you're willing to just hand over your bank account.
Lydia Michael (19:09.935)
You're talking about the brand love drivers without like referencing them or even maybe knowing about it, right? Yeah.
Erin Patten (19:11.979)
I literally.
Erin Patten (19:18.573)
Oh, cool. Yeah, well, because that's been my experience, you know, on the customer side. so, you know, and also you mentioned this too, but the connection, I'll just read it for what it says. Most marketers focus on conversion. And you mentioned that a lot of people are focused on the bottom line, but you focus on connection. So why is connection a more durable business model?
Why is it a more lasting business model? Why is it a more sustainable business model and not just a nicer one? Because I think to your point you mentioned, people are like, well that sounds nice, Bram Love. So what is really your response to people's objections around that?
Lydia Michael (20:01.08)
Yeah, and I don't want to say that conversions don't matter, right? So in our business, still as a marketing and brand consultancy, of course, those things matter. Of course, that is the goal at the end of the day, right? We want to see that growth and help our clients reach that. But the way you do it is different. And that's, think, where everybody kind of has their unique approach, unique framework, or even methodology, if you will. And so for us, we think that that's very important because research also shows, by the way,
Erin Patten (20:04.703)
Of course.
Erin Patten (20:14.431)
Of course.
Lydia Michael (20:30.317)
that more than 90 % of people or customers make decisions based on their gut feeling. Let that sit for a second. That's a really powerful statistic. More than 90 % of customers make decisions based on a gut feeling and then later justify with logic. That's so powerful because what that tells you is, and of course it depends on the category, you know, how risky is the purchase, right? I mean, if we're talking about
Erin Patten (20:48.864)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (20:59.343)
you know, buying a smoothie for $5, right? And you don't like it, big deal. But, you know, if we're talking about buying a house or a car, that changes the element of how people make decisions, right? So mindful of that. But nevertheless, people buy based on the gut. They buy based on the heart. And so because of that, it's important that as a company or as a brand, you are connecting with people beyond the transaction.
you're providing value beyond the product or the service. So, and I always say this to our clients when we work with them. And last evening I was hosting a workshop and to all of the small businesses in the room, I said, what are you selling beyond your product or your service? And they just kind of stared at me for a second. And I'm like, Coca-Cola sells joy and happiness. Yes, we know they sell beverage product and snacks and all of those great things.
But at the core, they're selling joy and happiness. And so I encourage everyone typically to think about how they're showing up and what they're truly selling at the core. Because we don't just buy the product or service, we buy the way it makes us feel many times. And so when you think about yourself, like when you're buying Gucci, you know, there's so many other brands that you could buy, but Gucci clearly makes you feel a certain way. I'd love to hear more about that by the way.
Erin Patten (22:25.362)
Mm-hmm Yeah, I mean I'm happy to share because I think about that too I'm like, why am I not a Chanel girly? Like why am I not going to Hermes? You know, like I have Louis Vuitton but you know, but I I'm not even at Louis Vuitton all the time, you know, and I think for Gucci it is The sensuality the sexiness is what I think about when I think Gucci You know, I used to work in the fashion industry before I went to grad school
Lydia Michael (22:32.718)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (22:54.504)
And that back in that time, I used to go to a lot of fashion shows and that was the era of Tom Ford. And, know, and I feel like Versace to kind of carry that energy, but a little bit before my time, but it really was definitely to me a more fashionable fashion house. And I feel like a lot of the other luxury brands and luxury designers were much more traditional. They much more catered to.
a more refined, conservative clientele. And Gucci was much more of a risk taker and much more of a trendsetter and like bold colors, bold cuts, deep, deep, know, Vs and showing cleavage and short, short skirts. And so I really felt like to me, Gucci embodies that sensuality, that sexiness.
in its design and of course in the quality. So that's probably what attracts me more to the Gucci brand than say any other fashion house if you will.
Lydia Michael (23:58.135)
Yeah, I love that. And, you know, that sensuality that you described, that's kind of the factor that inspires you to want to rep the brand, right? So very similar with other brands that people support, they see a part of themselves in the brand in a way.
Erin Patten (24:08.222)
Yeah. Yes.
Erin Patten (24:16.396)
Mm-hmm. Agree, 100%. And so...
I guess this is a, when we're talking to you, I was a good example of kind of sharing why I love Gucci, but I would love to hear from you, like, what's the difference between a customer who likes a brand versus a customer who actually loves it? What's the tell, like, what's the differentiating factor there?
Lydia Michael (24:44.428)
Yeah, I think the way you show up for the brand and the way you support it, meaning that if I like something, I might buy it sometimes, right? I might also have other options there.
Erin Patten (24:59.564)
Mmm.
Lydia Michael (25:01.548)
But when I love something typically, and regardless of premium pricing, pricing going up, if I truly love something and I know it has a space in my life, then I'm going to support it and buy it no matter what.
Erin Patten (25:19.052)
Mmm.
Lydia Michael (25:20.91)
And so, you know, product went up a dollar or two. I don't really care because I've already done my research and I know that this is the stuff that I want to use. Right. Um, or I believe in this so much and it could be the quality. could be, you know, the way customer service takes care of me. Could be a lot of different factors, the way it makes me feel. It could be a combination of all of those things, but that I think is really what makes you stick around. Um,
Erin Patten (25:28.748)
Mm.
Erin Patten (25:45.639)
I agree.
Lydia Michael (25:47.779)
And then going beyond that, right? So even just word of mouth, the best way of marketing, when we like something, especially as women, we tend to share it with our friends or aunts or moms or, you know, just everybody. And we want other people to also have a really good experience. And so we share more of that. That I think is also difference between liking and loving a brand is that kind of joins in.
Erin Patten (26:12.172)
Hmm.
Lydia Michael (26:16.192)
and surpasses the loyalty because sometimes you can stop at loyalty. You know, I'm loyal to this product. I love this. I won't use anything else. But do I have to go out there and advocate? Not really. But if I'm this true lover of the brand, I might do that. It's also a personality thing though, right? Some people are more inclined to share and encourage others to use. And some people are just content with, you know, just using it and not talking about it.
Erin Patten (26:43.701)
Yeah.
I 100 % agree. Because when you were talking about that, what was coming to mind for me for some reason was food, like groceries. Because I think a lot of people pay attention to some prices, but if there's something that you always get at the grocery store or you always buy, you're never looking at the price. You're just grabbing it and throwing it in the basket. like, I got to have these cookies or these chips. For me, it's like this special cottage cheese that I love. I don't think I've ever looked at the price of the cottage cheese. I just always buy it.
Lydia Michael (27:04.344)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lydia Michael (27:11.938)
Wait, now I want to which one is it?
Erin Patten (27:15.422)
It's called good. Good culture. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so crazy because there was a time when it was like completely sold out. Like, and I was just like, yeah, it was crazy. I think it went viral or something. So people were buying it like crazy. So, but yeah. Yeah. I just want to acknowledge though that there is something here.
Lydia Michael (27:17.569)
good culture. That same one. Yeah, that's funny.
Lydia Michael (27:26.252)
Really? Yeah.
Lydia Michael (27:33.442)
Well...
Erin Patten (27:39.341)
that really maps to what I teach about energy, particularly the mirror principle. So a brand that can receive a lot of love can't receive a lot of love unless it's broadcasting a lot of love. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, give what you get. you know, I, and obviously kind of I think energetically about the work that I do and the metaphysical work that I do too, like,
Lydia Michael (27:52.554)
Erin Patten (28:05.322)
You have to be in alignment. know, have to, even as I'm building my current brand Raw Beauty 2, like I'm intentional about, you know, the messaging and the language. I'm not trying to move as quickly as I try to move with Dayo and growing. And there is really like, even like for every product, like I'm literally signing the insert cards, like love Erin, you know, and I'm praying over the boxes. Like, I really hope that this serves this person. So like, this is like a very different.
Lydia Michael (28:28.792)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (28:33.022)
approach that I'm taking with building this business, because it's certainly an extension of sort of a physical manifestation of the work that I do in the spiritual, you know, spiritual business community. And so I really want to kind of get your take on how you feel in terms of like, if the brand, you know, wants people to connect with it on a love frequency, then it itself has to be operating that way.
Lydia Michael (28:42.157)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (29:00.462)
I think that that's a very interesting take. I don't know that I've ever articulated it that way, but I'm on board with that 110%. And I'll tell you what, because, I think, I mean, we've, you know, we've known each other now for a really long time and we didn't talk for a really long time and just recently reconnected, right? But I think even just seeing your involvement as a person and then now as a business owner going from one beauty brand to the other.
Erin Patten (29:09.661)
Hehehehehe
Erin Patten (29:17.462)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Erin Patten (29:29.974)
Mm-hmm.
Lydia Michael (29:30.294)
I think that the way the CEO or the business owner, really the business owner, the founder, decides to show up in their business, many times the business takes on a lot of who we are, naturally. And that's good if you have good energy, right?
Erin Patten (29:50.826)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (29:54.198)
And I think I'm going to refer to that for smaller businesses, because it's a lot easier to do that as a small business than as huge corporation, because there's so much red tape. There's so many different factors and departments and all of that stuff. But as a small business owner, I think when you're starting a business, the vision that you have for the business is because of how you view the world or how you want to see the world and you see it through your lens. And because of that,
Erin Patten (30:00.171)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (30:24.129)
the language takes on your style, right? The drivers that you incorporate, the things that you care about as a human being could potentially show up in your business, right? And so if communication to you as a person is really, important, you're for sure going to make certain, to be certain that that's the same thing in your business. And the same goes for all the other factors.
Erin Patten (30:49.772)
Mm-hmm.
Lydia Michael (30:53.547)
that show up.
Erin Patten (30:54.572)
100%. Yeah, and you know, I'm so glad that we kind of just started to open up that conversation a little bit because...
This is my dream for the meta business world. And I went to business school. I've shared a lot on this podcast that I went to Harvard Business School. I was trained to be a manager at a, know, Fortune 500 or Fortune 100 company leader at one of these companies. And it's interesting that you mentioned that a lot of these bigger companies aren't able to have that kind of impact on their products and their offerings because of
politics or the culture of the organization. But this is exactly why the meta business world was created so that we can start leading and growing these small businesses that will eventually be the large businesses of the future with that intentionality, with that promise that we care about the end customer, that we care about the quality of our products, that we care about the quality of our production, that we care about the ingredient structure.
And we're not just here to push things as quickly and fast as possible. you know, we know, we see that companies that aren't intentional about it, know, IE tech companies, big tech companies, and if they're having sort of these like, in my view, kind of, you know, vampiric, like take, take, take, like personalities, then it makes sense while we get on these tech platforms and these social media platforms, and we feel like all of our energies drain.
Lydia Michael (32:02.839)
Right.
Erin Patten (32:27.84)
you know, after we get off of it, you know, it's not actually adding unto us and adding unto our lives. So I think that's really beautiful that we're having this conversation around what a small business can do because eventually that small business becomes a medium business. And then that medium business becomes a large business. You know, all these massive unicorn billion dollar companies started small at some point. So I think that's really beautiful that we're having kind of that, that kind of view of what's possible.
Lydia Michael (32:27.988)
Mm.
Lydia Michael (32:51.435)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (32:56.787)
now into the future.
Lydia Michael (32:58.571)
Yeah, agreed.
Erin Patten (33:00.172)
So cool. And so I would like to ask one last question and then we're going to get into our lightning round. For my audience, we have a lot of high achieving entrepreneurs, a lot of high achieving women here who are building, in my view, purposeful, soul-led businesses. What's your one piece of advice for building something that people will actually love and not just buy from you? And this, hope you can address both service businesses as well as product businesses for these women.
Lydia Michael (33:32.873)
You know, there's a lot of things, but I think the one at the core is to keep it real and to stay true to what it is that you're building. think, I mean, this sounds like such a no-brainer in a way, but it is a lot harder to do in practice because especially when you're starting out, you have...
Erin Patten (33:45.557)
Yes.
Erin Patten (33:54.06)
is
Lydia Michael (33:57.502)
all of these examples around you, both good and bad, and you're like, well, I can do a little bit of this and this worked out for them really well, so let me incorporate that into my business. And there's nothing wrong with being inspired and integrating things and learnings or successes and failures from others, right? To help you build the business. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about, don't try to be another business. Don't try to be another founder because
That's when you're going to attract the wrong people and the wrong customers because that's not sustainable. truly staying true to your vision and where you're trying to go and what you're trying to build, but also staying true to how you want to do it because that is typically what sets you apart from everybody else. That's the reason why you start. I remember when I started blended collective, back then I got, and I don't think I've ever really talked about that publicly, but I,
Erin Patten (34:30.347)
Yeah.
Lydia Michael (34:56.277)
received quite a bit of backlash. it was a little bit of family, but it was a little bit of industry, which was really discouraging in the early days. Like people would say, why are you, why are you starting a marketing and branding company? That's such a saturated space. You couldn't start a worse company. And I'm like, but I'm going to do it my way. And I have a vision for it that I haven't seen out there and I'm going to do it differently.
Right. And so sometimes you don't, it's not about reinventing the wheel or creating a new product or a new service. You can do things that other people are doing, but you want to do it better. You want to do it different. You want to do it with your type of approach. Right. And even in the same, you know, same backlash. remember like early days I would show up at these, you know, I'd have a booth at an event and you know, there's this like,
Erin Patten (35:41.28)
Yes.
Lydia Michael (35:52.311)
marketing company that was killing it and they were right next to me and you know, they come up to me and they're like, you know, but like, who are you? Like, you know, trying to bring out that insecurity in a way of like, who are you? And like, why, why do you, you know, they didn't really say this, but the feeling and the energy speaking of energy, you know, really set to me, like, why are you here? Like, why do you think you deserve to be here? It was just very, it wasn't kind.
Erin Patten (36:15.916)
Mmm.
Lydia Michael (36:21.099)
Let's just say it that way. It wasn't kind and it always stuck with me. And a few other scenarios like that happened in my early days and it could have really discouraged me from continuing because it was hurtful in a way, right? But I had to remember why I started, where I was trying to go, how I wanted to do things differently and I leaned into that strength and into that power.
Erin Patten (36:22.695)
Mmm.
Lydia Michael (36:47.915)
And I chose kindness in all of those situations where I could have responded with anger and all of those things and negativity. I actually chose kindness. And I think there's a lot of strength in kindness and it's operated in business. you know, that's another advice I would have is, you know, lead with kindness.
Erin Patten (36:55.445)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (37:01.33)
Absolutely.
Erin Patten (37:08.78)
I love that. And it also is a testament to why you're still here eight, nine years later. And a lot of those other marketing companies are probably struggling, you know, and to grow if not, you know, declining because where we're moving and I talk about this a lot on my podcast, but where we're moving in this in this new age is into an age of higher consciousness, into an age of love, into an age of kindness.
where businesses that succeed, businesses that are sustainable, business that are future ready are operating with this posture. They're not competitive. They're not trying to stab you in the back. They're not, it's not cut throat anymore. It's really a different way of operating, a different way of being. And Lydia is the embodiment of that. And I 100 % agree with her recommendation around stay true to who you are. And I have to just, you know, have a testimony here.
around even though I thought that I was being so authentic and being myself. I had been really investing a lot heavily into social media and becoming like a social media influencer and thinking that social media was going to be my primary driver of my business. Here I am six years later and it and I have to say that it has not been that way. Like I've gotten most of my clients, most of my relationship building in person, soul to soul.
and wanting to look like a lot of these women, designer, vacations, flashy images, sexy images. And I thought this was the way that I needed to perform in order to be successful, in order to be received by the broader collective. the whole time I'm thinking, I'm being authentic to myself, but in many ways, still looking outside of myself.
for what I needed to do to be successful. And so I think that sometimes we have to take a hard look and a close look and a kind look, a non-judgmental look at ourselves and ask, is this really serving me? Is this really serving my business? You could like to do it, which is one thing. I actually enjoyed doing it for a long time. Right now it's just not aligned. But then,
Lydia Michael (39:29.451)
Hmm.
Erin Patten (39:32.85)
Is it really serving my business is the real question and you have to be honest with yourself and really determine. It really is and I think I'm trying to be like somebody else. I'm really not being true to myself and so I think that's just such great advice. Thank you so much. Yeah. Okay. So now we're going to get into the brand love rapid fire questions and so the first one is can you name a brand that you love right now?
Lydia Michael (39:46.529)
Mm-hmm.
Lydia Michael (39:51.392)
Thank you. Yeah.
Erin Patten (40:02.016)
that nobody's talking about.
Lydia Michael (40:06.829)
So I have a couple of different answers. So one brand that I've seen that I think is very interesting that is reviving a boring category as hot girls, hot girl pickles. I think the company is called Good Snap Company or something like that. And their signature product so far is hot girl pickles.
Erin Patten (40:12.426)
Yeah, but quickly.
Erin Patten (40:25.112)
Lydia Michael (40:34.73)
and I found them on social and I was like, what a way to revive a low involvement, low engagement category, pick them. So yeah.
Erin Patten (40:42.304)
Yeah.
Hot Girl Pickles, y'all. Okay, if brand love were a song, what would be the genre?
Lydia Michael (40:52.888)
Ooh, Armbian soul. I see, like it's taking on my personality. can't control that. Yeah.
Erin Patten (40:56.588)
Ooh, I like that R &B song. Nice. The one brand whose story has made you cry.
Lydia Michael (41:09.458)
Ooh, really?
I don't know if I have one on the spot, Erin. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think really hard.
Erin Patten (41:16.972)
That's the answer? Okay, cool.
Okay, and last one because I was there with you. Can you speak to Detroit in three words?
Lydia Michael (41:32.852)
Ooh, resilient, creative, and innovative.
Erin Patten (41:41.396)
Resilient, creative, and innovative. That's it? Awesome. Okay. That was awesome rapid fire round. I feel like you're going to be thinking about that brand who made you cry later. You're going to be like, yeah. Awesome. Well, this has been such a fantastic episode. I literally have goosebumps. think I really.
Lydia Michael (41:45.652)
Yeah Detroit.
Lydia Michael (41:51.699)
yeah, good. minus one.
I'm going to get back to you on that one.
Erin Patten (42:08.027)
Wasn't expecting us to go this deep into brands and love and marketing. I didn't know that it could be this, you know, of course you talk, we talk about the emotional aspect of it, but this was really, really fantastic. And I think that people are going to get a lot of value out of this. And I would love for people who are interested in working with you, interested in learning more about brand love, or it just even buying the book. Can you share a little bit more about how they can get in touch with you and support your work?
Lydia Michael (42:12.672)
Really?
Lydia Michael (42:37.832)
Absolutely, yes. So our website is our home online. So blendedcollective.com. Of course, you can connect with us on socials, LinkedIn, and Instagram. And the book is available anywhere you can get books. You can easily find it on Amazon. yeah.
Erin Patten (42:56.837)
Awesome cool and the book is called brain love if you didn't get it by now so you can find the book on Amazon called brand love and Again, Lydia was one of the key instrumental players in me building my first company dayo Detroit, which is now Rebranded into raw beauty and I could not be appreciative enough. I could not be a better mode of appreciation than now
to have this full circle moment with you. So I just want to thank you so much for being here.
Lydia Michael (43:29.088)
Thank you so much for reconnecting and for bringing me on this podcast. I'm super excited.
Erin Patten (43:34.417)
Yeah. And for all of those that are eager to learn more about me, you can find me across social media at I am Erin Patton. Of course, you can also connect with my work at my website, erinpatton.com. And if you want to see more about raw beauty that we're talking about, the spiritual manifestation of the physical manifestation of my physical work, physical manifestation of my spiritual work, you can go to my beauty website, rawbeauty, r-a, beauty.co, C-O.
Lydia Michael (43:57.906)
Thank
Erin Patten (44:04.299)
And you can see my products there and learn more about my journey to now. And without further ado, I want to thank you all for joining us for today's episode of the Meta Business Millennial podcast. We love you so much. If you haven't already subscribed to the show, share this with a friend. We want to hear from you in the comments. And until next time, much love and light. Peace.