Erin Patten (00:02.776)
Some love stories end at the altar. This one began there, and then had to die so it can be reborn as something far truer than either of them had the courage to name the first time. Twin years ago, my guest met the person who had become her best friend, her husband, her heartbreak, and right now, in this season, the great love of her life, and not in a way that the world would expect.
SafeHaven (00:13.25)
you
Erin Patten (00:29.686)
It happened in a way where they had to lose everything to find each other again. So today, for the very first time, they are telling that story together out loud with nothing left to hide. This is Remy Marie and James Haven, and this is the most honest love story I have ever had the privilege to witness. Welcome y'all to the show.
SafeHaven (00:42.625)
Good to be here. Good to be here. Yeah.
Romi (00:52.404)
Yeah.
Romi (00:56.384)
That that intro was just like so special and so sweet and I love you. And thank you for having me back. And you know, the last time the three of us were together was at the White House. Literally.
SafeHaven (01:07.083)
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Erin Patten (01:07.372)
Literally.
SafeHaven (01:10.625)
It's amazing when, like, I'll see it and, you know, whatever.
Romi (01:17.31)
Aaron, thank you.
Erin Patten (01:18.242)
Thank you and welcome James too to the show. It's just such an honor to see you. I actually talked to to Romy. I mean for for y'all the little bit of background. I actually met Romy, who I've had on the show a few times through James. So it's funny because we've been talking about you and like now we actually have a chance to talk to sit with you, to talk with you and not like make up stories about you. Like you actually can be here.
SafeHaven (01:18.622)
Yes, thank you.
SafeHaven (01:41.088)
See, that's, see, yes. I live in the town of Makeblaze, so trust me, I'm used to it, it's okay. That's a whole other conversation, that's a truth of truths. There we go.
Romi (01:46.057)
You live in the head of make believe with a fucking town, the head of make believe. The truth. I speak the truth.
Erin Patten (01:52.598)
Yeah, so we're not gonna make believe anymore. We're real life, real time. Okay, so James, I want you to come in first and I want you to just tell us why here, why now? Like why are we having this conversation right now?
Romi (01:55.583)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:56.906)
Yes.
SafeHaven (02:06.816)
Well, I mean, this is there's so much to talk about. I mean, I'm only wearing a t-shirt. I don't know you can see this, but that says I love Rummy. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I just want people to notice that before I say no. mean, listen, you know, Rummy knows this and I'm sure there'll be different moments to get emotional during this talk, but.
Erin Patten (02:13.102)
I didn't notice that.
SafeHaven (02:25.701)
We met at a very dark time in my life, I mean, arguably the darkest. And I've known her now almost half, sorry, a quarter of a century, sorry. she's never not on my thoughts. She's always in my thoughts, like Superman with Lois or anything like that. And we've just had this incredible every couple of years, which I'm sure she's already told you about, but every couple of years throughout these 20 plus years, we've always gotten back together.
you know, like to have a dinner or just to talk or whatever. And it's always magical when we would separate. Like it would be like, we'd see each other. And then was like, everything was just like, whoa, the music was louder. The lights were bigger. Everything was amazing. So there was always that. And again, we'll go more into this, but the last year, like what would have been, you know, obviously 2025 was the worst year of my life. Mostly self-induced because of, you know, things like that. But I'm just saying it was the darkest time of my life. And, you know, I really felt I'd lost her.
and one point for all time. And one of the craziest things is that even Romy, believe, she'll say, no, if she was aware or not, but I don't think she was. But the craziest thing is, you know, the marriage, let's say annulment, if you will, final paperwork was filed on June 5th by the court. The judge signed it on June 4th and the court filed it officially on June 5th. She called me on June 5th of this year.
And if I'm not mistaken, Remy, you didn't even realize that was the day. And it was crazy. And she called and I didn't pick up because obviously I wasn't ready for it. I was like totally in shock. I was just like hallucinating seeing her, you know, name, her nickname, you know, come through the phone like three in the morning. So I didn't even believe it was her. And then she sent a beautiful picture of us in this park. And my parents had their first big moment and song, your song by Elton John. And it just really got to me and I was just in this state of like shock, but a good shock.
Romi (03:51.753)
I go to
Erin Patten (03:51.928)
Definitely not.
SafeHaven (04:17.085)
Because like I said a moment ago, I thought I'd never hear from Rika. And in that moment, I realized anything was possible. So that was the big moment for me. So once I processed, my gosh, this really happened, I took a second just to how to respond. It was important, I took a second, I believe. And then I reached out to her on Father's Day, and then the next day we talked. And we talked like we always talk. It's just this calm opening, like, hey, hey, you know.
Erin Patten (04:24.693)
Yes.
SafeHaven (04:46.508)
And then we got into heavy stuff. But I'm just saying, there was a moment there where I looked to my entire existence in that moment to answer your original question. And went, why now? Because now I'm fearless. Now I know anything's possible. And now I want to be the little kid who was always happy, always jumping off tables, always dancing, always whatever. And in that moment, I realized
I'm done with all the trauma. I'm done with all the self-deprecation. I'm done with all of it. And Romy's always been that guiding light for me in my life. And I felt I was like, I'm gonna trust her. I'm just gonna trust her in this moment. And we had a very powerful talk, covered a lot of things. I think it was about an hour. And by the time I got off the talk, I was like, I'm going for it. She said, save a couple of words out loud, which we'll get to in a moment. I said those words out loud and my life has changed forever. So that's why now.
Erin Patten (05:44.407)
Same question for you, Romy. Why here with me right right now?
Romi (05:50.583)
First of all, I want to just say for anyone tuning in, because it like maybe emotional hearing, you talk about that. We ha like he said, we you know, I've been on this podcast before with you, Erin, and talked about the fact that James and I have known each other since I was, you know, 20 and just this very long journey together. This is the first time he and I have been on a podcast together that wasn't my own interviewing him through my own thing. This is the first time somebody has.
Asked us about our story to the to the level in which you're asking, or that we're even open to talking about. So it's a little, it's a little surreal, a little bit surreal that we're talking about this. And, you know, why here, why now? Because I wrote my book, you know, we talked about that. I I I put my book, Breathe Miha on Substack. And as the last chapters, I was starting to release them because it's my story.
Erin Patten (06:19.777)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (06:29.433)
Okay. Thank you.
Romi (06:41.324)
Right. It's my story and it's my memoir. And and for those, you know, a memoir is your journey. It's your perspective. It's your reality. It's healing. And I worked very hard over the last few years and through the annulment, the divorce, the love, my life, I wrote. I went to writing. You know, I went to that's how I how I was healing through it. And so as the chapters were coming up, he and I had not spoken, you know, through all of this and and
You know, since the annulment was finalized or anything like that. And so I didn't even have his number. I had to call my mom and get his number and unblock him and then reach out to him. And I remember just crying on the floor one morning and I called my mom and I was like, I cannot tell this story without him. Like it doesn't feel right.
As much as I wanted to hate him and I was angry and I was hurt, and you know that, Aaron, I was deeply angry. one, I don't want to hold anger like that in me. It's not healthy, you know. Two, I was releasing these parts of me through the book. And and three, someone's personal journey of their own trauma and what they're going through with their own identity and their own sexuality, which we'll get into, is not mine to share. I can share mine.
SafeHaven (07:36.856)
So
Romi (08:03.265)
But it started to feel like I was sharing too much of someone I loved. And I put in the book in the last chapters. The reason it hurt so bad and the reason I was so angry was because I love him. You know, that's why it hurts so much. That's why there was so much anger. Like you don't get that angry and that get go through that much pain if you don't actually have emotions for somebody, right? You don't give a shit if you don't love someone. I've left people and been like, I don't fucking care. Yeah, I don't even think twice, right? With him, I'm over here like.
Erin Patten (08:19.436)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (08:24.948)
Right.
Not even with big twice.
Romi (08:33.003)
With this insane anger, right? And that anger stems from, I'm so fucking hurt. I love you. You know? And so when I was able to process Yeah, when I was able to process that, you know, I reached out to him and I just went, I wanna say this before we open this up and why here, why now? I asked him if I could share my story. And I knew by calling him it was either gonna be absolutely fucking not, you know.
Erin Patten (08:40.075)
Yeah. In the grief.
Romi (09:02.677)
Fuck you, you can't share this. Or yes, and he he's never batted an eye, and he loves me, and and I asked him to trust me, and I asked him to tell the truth with me. But more than anything, Aaron, I asked for someone for the first time in my life and a man to let me tell my truth without disregarding me or calling me crazy. And he has allowed that. And and in that, it has allowed him to tell his truth, right? And so although our truths might
Erin Patten (09:29.239)
Yeah, no.
Romi (09:32.265)
Align and also be very different through that conversation. We've been able to say, I've been able to say, I want you to tell your truth. I don't want to live in a lie anymore. If we're going to do life together, because we were always intended to do life together. What caused that annulment and that divorce and all the things you read about in the book was lies, right? They got in the way and trauma that got in the way. And so if he and I are going to start fresh and start over and continue this life, which we
SafeHaven (09:42.613)
you
Erin Patten (09:51.991)
Yeah.
Romi (10:00.061)
Clearly can't separate, right? That's an obvious thing. Like, here we are again, right? It's like at this point, it's a fucking joke. But he is letting me tell my truth, and my truth can hurt him, and is also bringing him out of his lies, right? But he loves me enough to say, okay, I support you. And it created and opened the door to way more than he and I, I think, could have imagined since that first call. And I'm like, whoa.
SafeHaven (10:03.637)
.
SafeHaven (10:20.34)
you
SafeHaven (10:25.652)
So.
Erin Patten (10:25.921)
Yeah. Yeah. And this is just the precursor. This is not even the beginning yet. And I have to just say for all those that watch this show that I I always mention that trauma lives in silence. So this is this love story is the the I guess a test a living testimony for when truth is revealed and love is allowed to live and breathe, that it heals all things. And so with that, I want to get into you know, the beginning.
Romi (10:29.435)
Whoa.
Romi (10:32.997)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (10:33.725)
True. True.
SafeHaven (10:54.869)
And I just want to add something, if it's okay, real quick. There's a Dr. Gabor Mate out of Canada that said a quote once, and I always bring it up from time to time. It kind of is perfect for this moment. And he says a lot of things, but this one always got to me, so it ties in perfectly with what Romy just said and what you just said, Eric. He said, there's a wisdom in trauma. When you realize the trauma...
Erin Patten (10:56.321)
Yes, of course.
SafeHaven (11:15.919)
is not of yourself. And the key is to work through it and thus become yourself. I just love that quote, because that one part of like, it's not yourself. I'm trying, look, I'm doing everything I can. It's like, yeah, but you don't realize you are in the trauma. Your function, like a car is like wheels are messing down the road. Your car's, the wheels are messing, you have to get alignment. You need alignment. You can't, well it runs. It's trying its best to go to 50 miles an hour. Yeah, but the wheels are falling off. You know, so it's more of that, is that I think that once you finally address it,
Erin Patten (11:21.121)
That part. Yes.
Romi (11:36.773)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (11:45.936)
you can say, all right, fix the car. know, like, all right, fix my, you know, whatever this is. And then I just saw a movie recently, and again, I'm sorry, just one more thing. I saw a movie called Back Rooms, and I know people say it's a horror film, and there's a lot of other reasons for it. was a YouTuber guy made it. Very successful, made like half a billion dollars, made for like 10 million. It doesn't matter, but it deals with trauma, and it deals with patterns, and it deals with how people don't get out of their patterns. And it really was affecting for me, as I told Rummy, affected me very strongly because it was after our talk.
Romi (11:53.147)
Really?
SafeHaven (12:15.691)
after I'd made this change. So whereas the movie kind of goes, my God, I'm like over here going, if you get out of it, this is what's going to happen. So it's been a powerful month.
Erin Patten (12:27.339)
Hmm. Well, take us back to the beginning, Romy. I really want to know, like, when you you were 20, James, you were 30, how did the two of you meet?
Romi (12:31.769)
Okay. So we were at the L Re and my dad, I was working for my dad at the time, and my mom at Romy Straperies. I was just a young little girl smoking my parlaments with my jeans and my Converse and my vintage shirts and my bands, and I just was not, you know, I was just this little like.
Wild Child and dad wanted to go see Billy Bob Thornton play at the L Ray because his partner at the time, Felicia, was working for Angie and Billy while they were married. And so he was, my dad does not go out. He is not that man. He is like, you know, and he was like, Let's get, let's get in the truck and go. And I was like, my God, a date night with my dad. So the only date night that I had, and you know, my father, you know, the only date night I ever had with my dad was meeting Jamie.
And Jamie's probably the only man I think that's ever met my father. Okay. And he he well, he said to to date him, but basically, dad and I went to this show, and Jamie's mom, I remember walking over. My dad had like a really beautiful connection with his mom. Like he really liked his mom, and and Jamie's mom really liked my dad. And my dad is a very unique person. Like Billy kind of got my dad, Ang got my dad. And so
SafeHaven (13:30.927)
And what did he say about me? What did he say after?
Erin Patten (13:31.501)
Wow.
SafeHaven (13:36.248)
Yes, how about that one? There you go.
Romi (13:55.48)
For this family to even understand this machismo father of mine, I was like, my God, this is cool. Like, my dad was a man of very little words, you know, and very intimidating. It looked like he was gonna kill you. And I was like, they're smoking. And Jamie comes walking over. We know the spot right outside the L Rey with his mom. And he's just tall and he's, you know, young and and just, I mean, just beautiful, be this face, right? And I remember seeing him just come over and I'm just like.
Who is this gorgeous man? Like talking and just like we had this instant, right? Like this instant the instant
SafeHaven (14:29.966)
Instant to a point that's almost impossible. mean, like, she can tell you the whole thing in a second, but it's like, as she said, she smoked back in, or she used do the health nut now, which I love. But my point was, no, but it's really important. It's like, even when she went to go smoke, it was like, and that was like her first monologue, you know, and we were exchanged numbers, so it's key. It was relaxed. It was like, knew you, and now she's gonna go out and do a cig, and we're just gonna continue to talk. But it was like, it wasn't like, yeah, I'll come with you. It wasn't like that. It was just like.
Romi (14:47.639)
Yeah. Yeah.
SafeHaven (14:57.292)
We go outside, we keep talking, you like, let's talk about this. Yeah, cool. Yeah, we should do something soon. Yeah, okay, cool. Like, it was just very, like, obvious. It very obvious. You know, that's how I like the...
Romi (15:07.19)
Well then, you know, he he ended up sending roses to the shop. And my dad, of course, was like, You're gonna go out with him. And I'm like, how am I gonna do Angelina Jolie's brother? What are they just gonna with me? Like this family is like Hollywood royalty, like we joke, right? I'm like this little like Mexican punk rock girl. I'm like, he's not gonna go out with me. And I'm like crazy and he I'm insane. Like it's no. Well
SafeHaven (15:18.157)
I
Romi (15:33.707)
clearly never been able to fucking leave him and even married him, so here we are.
Erin Patten (15:35.501)
Ha ha ha
SafeHaven (15:38.412)
And I mean, it's not necessarily we have to talk about this now, but as was our first moment together, which I always love sharing, you know, she knew I was in love with her instantly. Like the second time I was like, instant, like it was just like obvious. But I was playing so hard to get, it was beyond hard to get. I was being so defunct. Like I just was like, I can't like just do everything you can, James, to avoid where this is going. And I just love the fact that she just called me out at the end of the evening, basically. And I just gave in.
Romi (15:40.011)
Mm.
SafeHaven (16:07.96)
It was just like at that point, there was no, can't fight this anymore.
Romi (16:11.518)
We we ended up having I ended up inviting him over to my apartment that I talked about in the book, the Pink Apartment. It's a special apartment for us, but he came over, this is like in some the first chapters, and he was, you know, and I I do want to say this is gonna bring up some hard stuff, but that's why we're here, right? You know, Jamie was in a space of and he can share his perspective as well, like kind of hiding behind some religious views of why he was this and who was shamed and who was good and who was bad and
SafeHaven (16:14.475)
Yeah.
Romi (16:41.48)
He projected some of that onto me initially with my not being a virgin and me being very sexually active and and very, you know. And so the first night, like we did get together, it was almost like a weird response where he just projected a lot of that shame onto me for me not being clean. And I think he was used to playing some sort of role that he was playing within his own life, right? Which has been the story of his life, and it's much deeper than that. But
SafeHaven (16:46.827)
Mm-hmm.
Romi (17:11.345)
I called bullshit. I called bullshit at a very young age. I was so young. Yeah, I was so young. I don't even know how I did that, but I was like,
SafeHaven (17:13.161)
Yeah, and the whole night, like it was amazing. It was so was awesome, but it was awesome. But it was awesome. It was just like going, well, you're off in your whatever world I'm having fun. remember that very clearly like you're going like, well, whatever you're doing, I really don't, you know.
Romi (17:21.321)
Yeah.
Romi (17:24.614)
I wish like whatever this is, this doesn't have to do with me, right? I've got this older guy who's trying to shame me, but like, I don't know how at that age I was able to be like, what the fuck is going on with you that you're gonna project that onto me and you're in love with me, which is a very interesting and traumatic start to a love. It is, because it's this like something deeply is rooted here in your own trauma around.
SafeHaven (17:27.857)
Yeah. Yeah.
SafeHaven (17:39.325)
Right. Absolutely.
Romi (17:54.418)
Sex or me or the woman who's right. And you've got this Christian kind of conservative dad, father thing that you're playing, and yet you're in love with me. And I think that's honestly been like one of the baseline parts of our love story forever is this confliction of like truth, his family. There is love. We are in love with each other, but then the lies. And those lies started then that night.
SafeHaven (18:16.809)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (18:18.013)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I wanna go to you, James, because I didn't realize your mother was there when y'all met. Miss Marshalline, that's how you pronounce her name? Miss Marshaline. And she gave the two of you a nickname. And we talked about it before.
SafeHaven (18:35.537)
Well, yeah, yeah, this is the greatest nickname of all time. I mean, I was named after James Berry, who wrote Peter Pan. And little did I know that she was so prophetic. It's unbelievable. And that goes back to who really am. I mean, I can't do a Zoom call now because I'll be out of focus. But basically, you know, I am Peter Pan. I'm the guy who's just got that energy and excitement and everything's amazing. And let's go, let's fly to Netherlands, do whatever. Let's go to a concert to do whatever. And that was me as a child. And she started calling me Pony Boy and all this other great stuff.
But yeah, I was named after Peter Pan. And then at the time she met Romy, she only had a pixie haircut. And so he wore their pixie, know? And she said, you're Tink, you're like Tinkerbell. And so it was perfect. And that's really what she's been for me my whole existence too, is that without Tinkerbell, when Tinkerbell almost dies, because she's willing to sacrifice and remember from the book, Peter goes, he loses his mind. So it's very important who Tinkerbell is to Peter Pan. And so it's always been very symbolic.
Erin Patten (19:25.517)
Mm.
Erin Patten (19:32.557)
Wow.
Romi (19:32.709)
When when his mom
His mother knew him, knew who he was. When she called him Pony Pony Boy, and when she called him Peter Pan. That a mom knows. You know this Aaron. We're mom. We know our children, right? She knew his truth. She knew him. She saw him. When he says he's Peter Pan, one, does he have Peter Pan syndrome where like every man on earth? Fuck yes. But is he actually a childlike, you know, lost boy and this like wonder in this game? He was. And that was stolen from him through trauma. And I got to witness this.
SafeHaven (19:39.057)
Yes.
SafeHaven (19:42.811)
Excellent.
Erin Patten (19:47.82)
Right.
SafeHaven (19:56.561)
Cheers.
SafeHaven (20:04.519)
That's right. That's right.
Romi (20:06.433)
I got to witness as this tink in his life, I got to see that part of him and then I got to see trauma steal it. Right. And so it was like, Where is this person that I love that I have this magical fun time with? And so when we met his mom and she was really, you know, sick at the time and we were, you know, the best our best memory, right? Is like, you know, us running through the halls of like the hospital, like with like
SafeHaven (20:24.881)
my gosh, my gosh.
SafeHaven (20:31.298)
I want you to imagine this because she's not gonna remember it's this no we had a wheelchair and we're flying up and down the cancer ward I mean who allows that no doctors sir you can't do that or man please we're right it's just up and down the thing unbelievable unbelievable unbelievable
Romi (20:35.139)
Yeah.
Romi (20:39.417)
Just yeah, we're just being, and his mom is just looking. Yeah, mom just looks at us and goes like this is pe Peter, Pan and Tink, right? Like she just saw it, but she knew what we were better than we knew what we were. We were trying to make it something that we've been trying to make it for too long without the real tr truth. Where mom saw it. And so when she said Peter, Pan and Tink, and that became us.
SafeHaven (20:51.654)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (20:54.091)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (20:54.191)
Thousand percent, thousand percent.
SafeHaven (21:00.74)
Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct.
Romi (21:08.854)
She saw two like companion people lost, right? Like to needed each other, this fairy, this childlike pixie magic, but she saw the relationship and she knew him. And I wish we would have known that more because a mother, a mother knows, right? A mother knows.
SafeHaven (21:20.729)
Yes.
Erin Patten (21:26.698)
Yeah. And she also had how many years wisdom on y'all? So yeah, you had to grow into that. You know, she could see like her mother see what we can't see because also they have the the age and the wisdom. And I just want to also talk to James, like how divinely appointed your life path has been from the naming of yourself after the Peter Pan author. Like who knew that? And for it
Romi (21:31.266)
Yeah. Yeah.
SafeHaven (21:37.444)
sure.
Romi (21:48.962)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (21:49.091)
It's just completely ridiculous. And then back to even her having a pixie haircut at that exact moment, she could have had long hair and she wouldn't have been called Tinkerbell possibly. So, I mean, again, all these things are divinely ordained.
Erin Patten (21:56.085)
Yes.
Romi (21:56.919)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (22:00.305)
Yes. And so, I wanna ask Romy, you've obviously you guys have loved each other through all these different seasons and marriages and divorces. Like what has kept you guys tethered? What do you think was that that what is that?
Romi (22:17.697)
Think it I think it is real love. I think it is real love. I think that
Romi (22:25.942)
I think it's the most wild intense love story of my life, right? Other than motherhood. It it is
To have loved somebody this much for this long and and be able to forgive the way that we forgive, the way that we start over, the way that we always find our way back. The the we're never gonna be apart. It just it's I don't think we can. I don't believe that we I believe that we're those souls. You know, we say we're twin flames and and I believe in that. I believe we are twin fl flames. I believe we are best friends. I believe I'm gonna cry. I believe that, you know, we're
SafeHaven (22:57.053)
You want to put it on?
Romi (23:06.229)
This great love story. It just has had, you know, like it it got twisted in terms of like what it was supposed to be. And I think that's been our message and the message of the book is that we've been taught that a love story has to look this specific way. And if it doesn't look that way, then it's it's not love. And and I think in our own wild, free, uncaged selves that we talk about, we also fell into this bullshit.
SafeHaven (23:15.554)
All right.
Romi (23:35.58)
way that we needed to be in love. And it just wouldn't work, Erin. It just wouldn't fucking work. And it always ended with a lot of pain. A lot of pain. And like I will be completely honest and that's why we're here and I want to make sure we address that. You know, his lie with himself became a like you and I have talked about, a hide-and-seek lie with me. And it has hurt me and pulled me and part of me
Erin Patten (23:36.428)
Put yourself on a wooden box. Yeah.
Erin Patten (23:58.988)
Mm.
SafeHaven (24:00.961)
you
Romi (24:05.512)
With my own trauma, which we've talked about, didn't want to address the truth either.
Erin Patten (24:10.721)
Yeah.
Romi (24:12.424)
I didn't want to either because I didn't want it to in interfere with my love. And so there was a lot of moments where we pulled the truth and came to a truth and almost sat in the truth and we both would revert back.
Erin Patten (24:13.579)
Right.
Erin Patten (24:27.348)
Yeah. 'Cause that felt safer. It felt safer.
Romi (24:29.309)
Because it was like it Yeah. And so this this time around there's just no none of like it can't fucking live that way or we will not be able to continue. You know what I mean? Like it just it didn't work. It didn't work and it and it ended really bad, you know, because it was just Yeah, that's why we're here. Is because we wanted Yeah. No.
SafeHaven (24:42.336)
you
Erin Patten (24:54.07)
Well, there's no longer any fear. There's no longer any fear of punishment. You guys have seen the best, the worst, the ugliest. So now what is left is the truth. And so that's what that's what always remains. And so I want to get to you, James, because I want you to have the floor here. And you've s said you're ready to speak about your family, like in your own words. And so I want you to just tell me whatever's on your heart that you feel like you could share, I want to share right now about how you grew up.
SafeHaven (24:57.855)
well. Let me tell you, I always start with one thing.
Romi (25:03.507)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (25:27.487)
And I say it slowly because I really want people to process it. You know, imagine going to a Hollywood premiere and imagine being with one of, could be my sister, could be my father, and imagine someone of some form of, you I know who they are. You know, maybe it's an actor I admire or just someone who I know. And they come over to say hello. And my father or my sister introduces me to them and they don't even look at me.
They keep their eyes on my father or my sister and shake my hand. That's a huge part of my upbringing. Where, you know, you see what matters in this town and what doesn't matter in this town. You know, an actor can be in the biggest movie in the world once they have a flop, no one calls them. I mean, it's that, You know, it's just literally like, whoa, are you disposable? Or you don't matter. So a huge part of my upbringing was being around this kind of, as I said, make-believe again.
where it's like everybody's important in this room. know, cheers of the fans, the cheers of the interviewers, who are like, God, you're so incredible, this movie, I can't wait to talk you about it, you And just feel like an outcast, kind of like a shadow, like Peter Pan, just feel like a shadow of myself. And so I got very used to early, and I've done this most of my life, so Rummy knows this, kind of became a defensive mechanism. I got very used to being alone, really used to being alone.
I mean, like, don't think anybody alive has ever slept in a bed longer alone in their life, you know, done more things like movies or traveled alone. I I think I'm literally like, if you put it all down, it'd be like, this man has done more things alone than anything on the planet. It's any humans ever done. So I very used to that. So my running and stuff like that, which Romani knows about, I'd run to be alone. I didn't run to another person, like cheating. I didn't run to a job or run to, you know, something. I ran to be alone.
And so I got very used to that. So that was my coping mechanism for a very long time. And then I would just kind of show up once in a while. So it'd be like, well, James, you have such a large personality that people think you're so successful. It doesn't matter what you do. Just express that once in a while, but don't really be that. Just express it. my gosh, James, your life's amazing. And then go back into, right, right, right. That's what I'm saying, absolutely. And then go back into your hiding. So that was a big part of my upbringing.
Erin Patten (27:37.387)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (27:41.066)
And that's the James that I met, to be honest. Yeah.
SafeHaven (27:52.623)
The sad part is I think that this is for everybody. I mean, we're hearing stories left and right. wouldn't even name their names. I think everybody knows who I'm talking about right now. But I mean, a lot of big actors are losing their children, dropping their names left and right. They want nothing to do with them anymore because they're realizing where that focus is for the person in the business compared to the focus of their own children. It's a big deal. So I had definitely an upbringing like that where I was really not important. And in so many words, right before I met Romy,
Erin Patten (28:10.945)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (28:19.834)
I was told by my father in so many words that I really had no value whatsoever. So meeting Rummy at that time was a big deal. It was a double down. At first it was, my God, there's a person in my life who finally gives me validation. And then secondly, she knows this already, so I'm not gonna be surprised. The reason I ran was because, well, one of these days she's gonna be walking around a lot like a lot of people do when they see all those beautiful houses that look like houses and then you open the front door and there's not even a house inside. She's gonna see there's nothing in there.
Erin Patten (28:49.418)
No.
SafeHaven (28:49.754)
She's gonna see that all this that I'm kind of, my gosh, she fell in love with, wait, she thinks I have a good sense of humor, she thinks like, whatever it is, she's gonna see there's something there. So I got out of there before she'd see what I thought was a real me. And it was pretty sad. But I went back to being alone. So that was a huge part of my childhood, huge part of my teenage years, just being around this weird, kind of make believe that's very superficial and just not knowing why.
Erin Patten (28:58.379)
SafeHaven (29:19.534)
you know, I didn't really fit in. I'm trying to fit in, but not knowing why I couldn't get even like a procedural or something like that. Like I make this joke sometimes you'll appreciate it. It's a simple little Tesla joke. say, wait a second. Okay, hold on. My dad's the Model S. My sister's the Model X. Winged door is really sexy. I'm the Model 3, right? The cheapest version, but the selling, right? So what if we just got the Model 3 going, give James a procedural and, you know, just let him rock it.
I mean, they'll still use their names to promote me when I get it in deadline, right? They'll say the son of the brother of just NAB NBC pilot, right? That's good PR. When it didn't happen, I'm like, again, wow, I guess I don't have any value whatsoever. So I got used to that. I have no value whatsoever. Yeah.
Romi (30:04.3)
I want to jump in on that if I can, because it's like it just hurts my heart. But, you know, just to say, you know, what it is. So people have like
reference. His sister is Angelina Julie, right? His father is John Voigt. And so we know this. And so that's a very large, we've talked about it in terms of Hollywood kids who have grown up on that level, right, of their family. Right. It's not just one sibling. It's it's it's a plus plus list of of celebrity. But but I want to say this because
Erin Patten (30:25.268)
Yeah, that's a plus plus list.
Romi (30:32.253)
Growing up in that, he was right, like overshadowed. And I can say this because we have talked, right? Like he was over he was overshadowed in that, like you're looking to the sister, you're looking to the dad, you're not looking at him, right? And then you create that kind of narrative, right, in yourself that you're not important, right? You're not as important as this person or whatever. So when we met and he did do that, it was like, and we've talked about that. And I didn't know, I didn't know then, Aaron.
SafeHaven (30:32.984)
Sure.
Romi (30:58.838)
That was what he felt, right? Because we had just fallen in love. It was very new. I know now, flash to years later, but at the time when he first left me, I didn't know it was because he didn't want me to unveil like this like truth that he didn't see value in himself, right? So if I saw no value, then it would like ruin this love that we had. Where now him knowing me this long knows I don't give a fuck.
Erin Patten (31:01.238)
Course. Yeah.
SafeHaven (31:25.799)
All right. Mm-hmm.
Romi (31:26.481)
about any of that stuff. And the the the saddest part is I didn't then right like I fell in love with this magic that we had. This we were like when we were on, it was like nothing in the world existed, right? We were in our own it's the most insane feeling that we have when we are locked in with one another. It is like a fucking drug, right? We're Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (31:32.054)
Course.
SafeHaven (31:42.11)
It's unbelievable. It's the most unbelievable thing.
Like I'm going to be doing it in a week, by the way. We're to turn on the radio. She taught me every song. She's going start saying, who's this, who's this, who's this. I'm going to start name and it's over. It's over. It's over.
Romi (31:54.462)
We just danced and we're like magical. Yeah. Like, and if he would have come to me then, which, you know, this has been the journey and said, I don't feel I have value. I really don't have anything going. I don't have what my family has. I don't have this. Like, would you love me through this? I'd have been like, I didn't give a fuck to begin with. I didn't I'm in my little fucking apartment with my Jedi Mirror falling apart. Like, yeah. I don't fucking care. Yeah.
SafeHaven (32:05.651)
Yeah, that's it. That's it.
SafeHaven (32:11.285)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's 110 % true. I know people say that, like, you're saying, no, she really didn't give a shit. She cared about her music, she cared about her parliaments when I first met her, you know what mean? But she didn't give a crap about what she's saying. No.
Erin Patten (32:11.848)
Ha ha.
Erin Patten (32:15.85)
Yeah, we all can live under the bridge together.
Erin Patten (32:23.008)
Yeah.
Romi (32:25.092)
Shit. But he had come from this reality where that's all people cared about. So that was his narrative, right? And that wasn't mine. You know me, Erin. I don't give No. And so when he left me, because I want to get into this because this is how it started. And I think it's important. So I'm if you don't mind, I'm gonna break this, right? Okay. Let's let's just break it because we may have different narratives, and that's okay, but
Erin Patten (32:29.398)
Course.
SafeHaven (32:31.903)
No.
Erin Patten (32:33.28)
And of course he didn't have the awareness to even articulate that to you at
Erin Patten (32:44.34)
Yeah, yeah. 'Cause we're gonna talk about the wedding and all that anyway, yeah. Yeah.
SafeHaven (32:44.895)
Do it, do it, let's go.
Romi (32:53.579)
Overall, I think we understand the same thing. Jamie came to me at one point when in that that time, and we were falling in love and expressed that he was gay, right? That he had these thoughts. And I was young, I was bisexual, I came from the home of two moms. This was not something, you know, at all new to me, nor was it foreign to me, nor did I he knows this. I held space.
At a very young age, for the person that I had just fallen madly in love with that was coming to me with their truth to say, okay, then let's, let's, let's explore that in terms of who you are. I love you. Go tell your family, go be this, right? And the reaction he got from his family, and I'll let him jump in after this, was not a very welcoming, valued reaction. Things started to get very complicated for he and I after that.
SafeHaven (33:37.876)
Okay. you
Romi (33:48.9)
A lot of things started to get not as pure as it was. And he left. You know, he was at my house all the time, at my apartment all the time, had a key to my apartment. I came home one day, and that key was under my mat, and that was in the book. That key was left, he was gone. And when I say this man disappears and goes into his own world, at that age.
After going through like the divorce I was going through with my family and everyone leaving and things happening, Jamie showed me the type of like abandonment that I've never experienced in my life. He literally gone. No goodbye, no pick up the phone. I called him for years crying, hysterically crying, left messages crying. Where did you go? Years of just, and I went down a very toxic.
heavily drinking route after that happened to me. And that was the beginning
Romi (34:55.447)
Of all of it.
Erin Patten (34:56.65)
And when was this?
Romi (35:00.837)
Jem, when was this?
SafeHaven (35:02.704)
Well, this would have been.
2012.
Romi (35:07.067)
I was right before my twenty first birthday.
And how long did you not talk to me for?
SafeHaven (35:12.657)
No, no, wait, no, no, I got the date wrong. I'm sorry. I think I got the date wrong. We've not started 20 years. So no, no, this would have been 2007. We got back together 2002, my bad. 2002, my bad. Let me correct. 2002 was when I met her in May at the LRA. We started dating in October at that. October, November, December, January is her birthday. I gave her the trip to New York. I took off right after that. that was, so yeah, sorry, my bad. was 2002. This would have been right around 2002, January.
Romi (35:16.006)
Yeah.
Romi (35:20.591)
Yeah, two thousand and two.
SafeHaven (35:41.936)
after her birthday, maybe around the 20th, somewhere in there. And then, you know, and then she rekindled five years later after my mom. Right. Five, two, yeah, 2007, 2007.
Romi (35:48.599)
Five years went by. Five years went by. Our parents ended up dying two weeks apart in the same hospital of cancer. And I'm in San Francisco and I see on the news that his mother had passed away. I was going through my own death, his death. I reached out. It took five years and our parents dying for him to come back into my life.
SafeHaven (35:57.72)
Yeah, January 27th, February 11th. Or 10th. Yeah, 10th.
SafeHaven (36:14.298)
break and then just to jump ahead and then after that though it wasn't even planned we stayed the next period of years up until our 20th anniversary if you will just here and there seeing each other every couple years.
Romi (36:28.459)
I was on the L word, you know, I was, you know, identifying and my my sexuality stuff at that point. And you know, it went on and on and off. And then you, you know, if if I mean, let's lead up to the wedding. So then we get w when did we get back together? Do you want to share then when we did get back together?
Erin Patten (36:49.13)
Yeah, I actually wanted to ask specifically, James, about that because your father was there. You know, it was something that
SafeHaven (36:49.156)
Well, yeah, I mean,
SafeHaven (36:54.891)
Well, I want to say something very important. What, the wedding?
Romi (36:55.648)
No.
Yeah, yeah, go on, go in.
SafeHaven (37:00.462)
You're hilarious. She's hilarious. She's hilarious. Stop right now.
Erin Patten (37:00.522)
Yeah, tell us about that day. Or or or what's it what's important?
Romi (37:03.873)
No, I was saying I was saying we got back together though, like together right after COVID and that's when this whole thing started.
SafeHaven (37:09.206)
No, no, here's a very key thing. And I don't want to make this sound very melodramatic, though it's going to sound melodramatic. It's actually authentic. When you have a way that I know of leaving, right, and you know how much you hurt someone, you don't forget that, right? So after that, those moments that we would have every couple of years, I cherished. I want to be very clear about this. I cherish those dinners or time together or whatever it was. So.
We joked about this from Anna once before, like, you know, I thought I could never ask again. Like, did you ever think about us? She even said, I never thought you'd ever come back. So we had this kind of moment, you know, after the fact, like when we talked retrospectively. But back to what I was saying, I never thought I could ask again or even think again after hurting her the way I did. So there was no door opener, OK, to be clear. And then there was this moment and it was amazingly 20 years. Big day for us.
June 3rd, which we love very much Tom Cruise's birthday out of the blue, but there you go. anyway, June 3rd and I know right out place June 3rd and it was 2022 just out of COVID and we're sitting there her father's favorite restaurant Enrique's out in Long Beach and she was coming out of a difficult relationship at the time and she just looked at me at one point and said, okay, well, you know anyway enough of my drama. So what about you? You must have met the love of your life by now and literally on like in that moment the ice broke.
And I was able to say, I'm looking at her. And that was it. And it was like from that moment. Right. Right.
Romi (38:43.143)
To to hear those words at that moment for him to say that, I almost felt like my whole and that's where I said, No matter the stuff that was there that we weren't acknowledging that we should get into on this that we weren't acknowledging, the love was there and I felt it. And to hear him say that to me after all that type of abandonment and all the back and forth that we had done that I wrote about, you know, I was like, and it led to a very back and forth.
SafeHaven (39:00.66)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Romi (39:13.001)
few years up until our wedding. And you know, all of this is in the book. I write about all of this, but I think the most important thing to get into is so that that there is an opportunity for him to share. you know, we ended up finally getting married, right? You know, in twenty twenty. Yeah, well well we we we started we we ended up finally getting married. So you have to understand, like now with a little bit of reference, not the full story 'cause 'cause it wouldn't fit in here. You can read the book, but
SafeHaven (39:13.898)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (39:30.624)
Yeah, talk to us about that day. I wanna understand.
SafeHaven (39:40.47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (39:41.387)
Yeah, of course.
Romi (39:42.506)
From like that age to this, our parents to this. There's the gay thing, we're not talking about it, we're maybe talking about it. I'm gay, maybe I'm not gay, right? Whatever. We fall in love. Here we are, we're having a wedding. Surreal.
Romi (40:00.563)
Prior to the wedding on his 50th birthday, we had a very big weekend. I celebrated him in a very massive way. but we also had a come to Jesus moment of, you're gay and and let's do life together. And I remember yelling at him on a hike and him trying to argue with me because he couldn't face it with himself. I still saw this battle within himself.
Trying to like not be able to say it or own it. And I remember getting really frustrated on the hike and getting really angry and really trying to just celebrate this weekend. And we had a breakthrough. We had this beautiful weekend with photographs to show, dancing to show. We were just free because the secret was like let go. And I watched him just like be ready, be ready for this moment. And I wasn't gonna go anywhere.
It was not an a breaking issue for us. It didn't mean our love couldn't exist or we couldn't be married. It just meant this is the reality. Can we just fucking face this? So fast forward, and I'll get to this and let him speak on this, Kay. Fast forward to we're about to do this big people magazine interview and share our truth of our wedding and our marriage and his truth of who he is. And
SafeHaven (40:59.946)
Okay.
Romi (41:26.083)
It fell apart because he did the classic Casper the fucking ghost that he does, right? And when he's not ready, he disappears. And when he disappears, he disappears and he goes, fuck. It's not like he's leaving me for someone else, like he said. It's not like he's running away to some he fucking disappears from the fucking world, right? And I'm always left there going, What the fuck just happened? We just got so vulnerable. We get so close. I don't know how to do half-ass anything. So we're at a level that's like so in
SafeHaven (41:44.552)
you
Romi (41:56.097)
Up there with like connection. And then I'm always left with like, where the fuck are you? Right. And so this interview's about to happen. This marriage is happening. All this stuff is happening. Lies are happening. Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. And this hide and seek of him. And I'm sitting there with my daughter going, What in the actual fuck are we doing right now? Right. And so I'm gonna let him speak on this because I want to just say this just to rip the band-aid off because I'm not doing it anymore. And this is what's so beautiful about it, and this is why.
SafeHaven (41:57.736)
you
Romi (42:25.573)
This person is like getting to like have who he is. The reason we are here is because my book let me tell my truth. And in it, it lets him tell his truth, which I want him to tell. Because I'm not doing life anymore that way. Erin, you know that about me. I'm not playing games. I'm not doing unauthentic I'm not doing shit that's like bullshit. I don't want it, but I can't make the person I love.
Show up that way, right? That has to be for I can't do it. And I was trying so hard and he seemed ready. And then he wasn't. And I would be curious too, you know, for him to share when I came to him most recently with the book and said, I'm telling the story, and I I'm this is coming out. He was ready. He is ready. He let me share this, and we're sharing it together. And
SafeHaven (43:06.79)
you
Romi (43:21.561)
I don't neither of us give a shit that the marriage happened or the annulment happened or that it was when I when I filed for fraud, just so everyone is clear, I filed for fraud because I had somebody fucking lying to me about a lot of things, but most mostly lying to themselves.
Erin Patten (43:38.198)
That's where it starts always.
Romi (43:39.513)
That's where it starts.
SafeHaven (43:41.276)
Yes.
Erin Patten (43:42.26)
And it this is perfect because I mean I didn't have to ask my questions. You told you said everything you supposed to say. Yeah. And then it it teed me up for the next question that I had for James, which was it was literally like, This is your moment. And I want you to have it exactly the way you want it. So tell us what you're ready to tell us, James.
SafeHaven (43:46.917)
I think she answered it for me. Thank you for that. No, okay.
Romi (43:55.267)
Yeah. Yeah.
Romi (44:01.135)
Baby, it's four four one on my phone. Yeah, go. Yeah.
SafeHaven (44:03.877)
404. want okay for for I'm gay. All right, I just said it. I'm gay. There it is. It is. There you go. It's Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (44:04.203)
Literally
Romi (44:12.377)
Yes, that's our magic number.
Erin Patten (44:14.539)
It literally is for it was before four. Like I didn't have to ask any questions. Robbie said all leading up to this moment.
Romi (44:17.893)
You just said it like that. I love you.
SafeHaven (44:21.605)
I think we're done here. No, just kidding.
SafeHaven (44:26.565)
Yeah, it's pretty obvious as Remy says. Everyone else knows. That's my favorite. Her greatest line is all the time. like, everyone else knows. I'm making a joke about Hollywood right now. No, I'm making a joke about Hollywood. Like, if I went to a carpet and just screamed out, I'm gay, would I get a national applause? You know what I mean? Okay, there we go. Now we can hire him. Now we can hire him.
Erin Patten (44:32.561)
Yeah, because we ch w when you brought when you brought Romy to DC.
Romi (44:41.127)
Aaron, he said, he's he said before this, he said before this interview, should I wear my pink I love Romy shirt and my cowboy hat? And I'm like, baby, you wear what be you, boo. Be you. Like, you don't need to be anything but you. And I love you, and the world will love you. But I said, baby, everyone knows you're fucking gay. You don't know you're fucking gay. As soon as you own that you're gay, this is not a big deal. I'm so sad that the person that I'm in love with.
SafeHaven (44:50.411)
Yes, yes, yes, Yeah.
SafeHaven (45:01.026)
Yes.
SafeHaven (45:06.989)
Yeah.
Romi (45:09.046)
Felt like they could not be them to have value, but yet by not being them, they still felt like they had no value. So where's the fucking win?
SafeHaven (45:15.903)
Mm-hmm. True. Very well said. Very well said. Well, there isn't. Well, I think that's it. I think, well, I think you just said my whole life in a nutshell, there is no win. That's when I would talk about my life mostly, I would talk about it from a perspective of no win. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Erin Patten (45:20.915)
Yeah.
Romi (45:21.312)
the win here. You don't have me. You don't have truth.
Erin Patten (45:28.434)
Right, right.
Erin Patten (45:33.907)
Yeah. And so as you are really reflecting, I really want to understand like what did it cost you to carry this as long as you have?
Romi (45:43.158)
Great question. I know. I love you.
SafeHaven (45:43.565)
Well,
It cost my life. It cost my life till this day. Yeah. Because, you know, I wish I had the courage, cause you know what happens to those children? You know, they say affects you the rest of your lives. Well, you know, if you're frightened of something when you're five, you know, you're frightened of something when you're 15, you're frightened of something when you're 30, you walk in the room, you start shaking. Is there something you want to talk about? No, no, it's okay. You'll walk away. so it cost me my life.
Romi (45:49.225)
Yes.
SafeHaven (46:16.673)
Yeah, until this point, until this point. And now I couldn't, you I get up really early. I mean, know Romy's two hours ahead of me, but I'm gonna get up at three, four in the morning now. I mean, that's when I get up. I run, I'm eating great. I my mom, thank you, she always taught healthy diet and stuff like that. But I mean, I'm really taking care of myself. I love myself now. I love myself for the first time since I was a child. And I'm dancing every day for like hours, which is what I used to do as a child.
Erin Patten (46:18.931)
Mm-hmm.
SafeHaven (46:45.121)
I, yes, you know, but yeah, it's just amazing, to feel what I feel now. and, it reminds me of what I felt when I was a child. So, yeah, it's, I feel alive. Yeah. I feel alive and I, and I feel invincible too, which is another thing I can't speak for others. Yeah.
Romi (46:45.329)
Aaron, he's so gay. He's like the gayest I've ever, ever experienced. It's so beautiful.
Romi (47:09.852)
When he when he says Aaron, you know
I'm saying like when you were saying like it cost your life, we talked about it and I and I know him to
Fifty years we celebrated his fiftieth birthday and we tried to come out. And I l you know, and then if the years went past, but it's like to think of not being able to just say those words out loud or publicly, right? And I wanna say this like when the world watched him on the red carpet with his sister and the kiss, right? That's when I I met him around that time. The like infamous kiss had already been out on everyone knows the famous piss on the carpet, and they turned it into this like very, you know.
SafeHaven (47:42.858)
Yeah, probably everyone knows me for that. that's fun. Yeah. No, no.
Romi (47:49.862)
Sexual kind of thing between him and his he's he is gay. He loves her. He loves me, right? He has space. He holds space. He's not some weirdo. He's not some incestual person. He's not some brother. He's not some son. He's my best friend. He's the love of my life. And he is gay. And it is so not an important part of who he is, yet it's huge now. So if we do hold a massive space for this, it's because he deserves that, right? Because
SafeHaven (47:51.903)
Okay.
Erin Patten (48:18.495)
Yeah.
Romi (48:19.917)
Imagine going any longer with like this. Like what is the point? What is the point? No win.
SafeHaven (48:25.049)
Well, it's like you already said, there was no win, which is true. There was no win.
Erin Patten (48:27.241)
Right. And I wanna ask you, James, what would you say to the person listening who is still hiding? Like still in a marriage or a life.
SafeHaven (48:34.92)
my God. Well, I'd say call me. I'd say call me right now. No, really. No, I mean, I wish sometimes you could just give your number out because I know I'll get like a million phone calls, but I wish there was some kind of like more of, you know, a Twitter S or X thing now, but something where you could go, if this is legitimately that, because that's legit, that's the real stuff. That's not nonsense that you could somehow go get that person to me. But but seriously, if I could talk to them one on one, there's no doubt what I would say to them. There's no doubt. say I
Romi (48:35.781)
Erin Patten (48:54.613)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (49:02.997)
Maybe there's a coaching business that comes out of this for you.
Romi (49:04.69)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (49:05.126)
Well, mean, listen, I have a big plan. mean, I, you know, I have a big plan to help a lot of men, including men who are not gay, become more accountable. I mean, I'm wearing a bracelet right now that I just got, and I ordered it. And I was gonna tell Remy about this in person. She knows this, but it's something she even called me out recently, and so I'm just gonna put this out there. So there's a very famous story in the Bible about Nathan visiting David.
Erin Patten (49:13.962)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (49:32.687)
And David has done some really bad stuff with Bathsheba and whatever. And we'll tell the whole story, but basically it cuts to the chase where Nathan is talking about these two men, one rich, one poor, and the rich man steals this man's goat and whatever. And David has the audacity in that moment to say that man should be killed. And Nathan says, that man is you. And it's a big deal. And so the bracelet says, I am that man. And so what I want to be is a kind of my own life hurting, Romy.
Erin Patten (49:59.7)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (50:02.716)
and I wanna be there for other men, whether as I said, whether straight or gay, that hurt people. mean, there was a while back where I made this comment about the worst kind of narcissist is gay. And this was like a couple of weeks ago. And literally, Romy goes, it's you. I went, I mean, it was just like, my gosh. Okay, no, it's like, I'm just calling it out there. Like, those are the worst. No, no, no, no, they're the worst. I'm like, I'm sorry, excuse me? I mean, was just the way she called me out was just like Nathan. It was amazing.
Erin Patten (50:06.506)
Yeah.
Romi (50:16.341)
Yeah. King go chicos the worst the worst kind of man is a narcissist gay man. I was like
SafeHaven (50:30.318)
So that man is you. So I would say to that boy or that man, depending, because I know sometimes men like myself take forever, I would say right now, tell. Immediately. That's what I would say. I'd say I wish I could go back in time and say the words and own the words and not, and not, and not waiver. I don't care if it's my father or my friends. I mean, there's a, there's a classic story I've told Rummy. I was, I was a young boy. I was like five or six.
and we were playing dress up and we had someone's house who had a bunch of, mother had like the big Ballet or closet and we were just a bunch of kids playing around. We just grabbed those, like big shoes and big kids do that sometimes, big shoes and jackets and whatever and I went for a dress. And I went for a dress and I was the only one for a dress and they locked me in the closet for a very long time. And after that, I never put a lot of dress on because I was like, well, I'm not gonna be that kid who, you know.
That's not part of the group hug, you know, we played a lot of soccer with these kids that do everything else, but everything was just, you know, he just does that now. That was a, that was just a joke. I was just doing that as you know, whatever. Yeah. Five years old.
Erin Patten (51:34.129)
Yeah, you were five years old. What the you have no clue what
Romi (51:37.677)
You know, but I also like there's also like the person who put him in the closet, you know, and I think this is this is something that needs to be touched on and I know he'll speak on it and help many because I think it's one of the biggest issues of the whole entire universe. And I've said this, is that we are a bunch of kids with fucking daddy issues, right? I'm walking around I'm walking around with mine, but like his father is not
SafeHaven (51:54.307)
everything's daddy issues. It's all daddy issues.
Romi (52:00.147)
A strong believer of that being him, I think he looks at it as him, and he's said it to me. His father has said words to me that said, you know, he's sick. He's sick. And so what sick means is that. And so for yeah, it's like it's like a mental illness. And and and this, I want to make sure people understand the the real level of which sharing this is for him.
SafeHaven (52:09.572)
to Hirsch.
Erin Patten (52:15.007)
Like mentally ill because
SafeHaven (52:28.226)
Yes. And one more step, which is tied into which I'm sure a lot of other boys deal with. There's also a way where daddies especially don't say it firsthand, they say it plural. So you don't have to even keep saying, I'm the problem. You just keep saying those people that you don't want to be that luckily you're not, you know, thank God you went over a phase, whatever that was, but all people play around their teenagers, but you know, you experiment. But the thing is, it's good you're like, they do that. And so it keeps getting like instilled without a direct hit.
Erin Patten (52:30.901)
Yeah.
Romi (52:38.017)
Mm-hmm.
Romi (52:42.969)
People.
SafeHaven (52:57.474)
It's just like, yeah.
Romi (52:58.023)
Even at our wedding table after the wedding, he brought it up. And I'm I'll never forget, we're sitting there and he said, Well, you know, he was really sick. I'm glad he's not anymore. And in my head, I knew what that meant. And Jamie knew what that meant. And so much of Jamie's looking for value, and I think many men is let me show my father I'm a man. Let me show him I am worthy. Let me get value from my father. My mother's not here, right? This is my father.
Erin Patten (53:09.844)
Of course.
SafeHaven (53:17.431)
Sure.
SafeHaven (53:23.287)
Right, and I'll also tie into the divorce aspect because divorce has a lot of stuff. know, the idea that, you know, I said this for a long time too, and mommy knows that. I'd say, well, my dad, if you will, failed at that. You he failed at being a husband. He might think I'm a million things. Well, I won't fail at it. You know, so my head, you know, like, wow, see if I do that. Yeah, at least I didn't fail at marriage. know, at least I did something, you know, so you try to, because you're
Romi (53:38.741)
And you tried you tried to be that.
Erin Patten (53:44.501)
I'll I'll I'll one up him by doing better than him.
Romi (53:46.197)
Yes, yes.
SafeHaven (53:51.487)
Remember, you don't see the wind, as Rami said. There's no winds here. That's a wind. That would be a wind, right? In my head. So there was that. But yeah, a lot of that, I think, gets pummeled. I mean, was even watching, not doing a plug for the movie or anything like that, but I was watching a bunch of clips recently, because I'm preparing for this big time in my life right now, as you can imagine. And there's this movie called Boyer Race. I'm not saying it's the greatest movie, but there's what the movie's about. Was all the gay conversion therapy stuff.
Erin Patten (53:56.021)
Yeah, part.
SafeHaven (54:20.18)
that finally got disbanded because the guys actually running it ended up coming out gay, which is just, this is just wild and saying none of it worked. And I'm so sorry, all the boys are hurt. I mean, you're just going, okay, this is like, but it's that kind of thing. know, someone's saying we can just get the gay out. Of course, of course. No, that's what you think. When you see a lot of bashing, you go, careful, who are you? You know, no.
Romi (54:23.468)
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Erin Patten (54:34.101)
Well of course the one who founded it had to be gay 'cause he's trying to, you know, figure it out himself.
Romi (54:42.696)
Well, o of course you do, but you know, I think the interesting thing is with this is the level of psychologically understanding this part of him and us. Our relationship got into this lie of his, right? And his understanding that and then me. And I think the thing that's really difficult is he is gay, right? He is gay. And I want to acknowledge this g Jem because I we call each other Jem, sorry. Like we we a gay man.
Erin Patten (54:43.274)
Yeah.
Romi (55:12.936)
Can be in don't know what my hair is doing. A gay man can be in love with a woman, right? And a woman can be in love with a gay man. And I think that concept is a little too like above where people can even like process right now. And yeah. And we are in a space to say process it however you want. We're two human beings that deeply love each other and have a
Erin Patten (55:17.352)
Easily.
SafeHaven (55:30.485)
100 % 100 %
Romi (55:42.772)
d probably deeper connection than most of you that are married, honestly. Like at least from what I fucking witnessed. I don't want your marriage. Yeah.
Erin Patten (55:46.463)
That's that's obvious.
SafeHaven (55:46.759)
Well, that's from what I've witnessed, at least I can't speak for other people. When I meet married people, I'm like, I don't want this. What the heck is this?
Romi (55:55.527)
But the amount of pain I have been through from this personal lie that he's put himself in and then put me through, you have to understand that there was also a grieving part of me losing him in that way, but loving him enough to let him be him and grieving him enough to release this person that I thought was that for me. And that is a deeper love.
Than I've ever even known I had space or capacity for in my fucking heart. Yeah.
Erin Patten (56:28.261)
That's what we've been called to do. And I just want to call that out. It's called the honoring of choice. And when you really love someone, you honor the choices that they make. Whether they choose you or don't choose you, you have to honor that. Whether they choose to have sex with you or don't choose to have sex with you, you have to honor that choice. And I think for us, like we are so used to wanting to own people because of o our own insecurities of not having the abandonment issues that no, you're mine and you can't be anyone else's.
SafeHaven (56:29.714)
Yeah. Yeah.
SafeHaven (56:45.346)
Mm. Mm.
Romi (56:45.436)
Part, Aaron, that part.
Romi (56:54.532)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SafeHaven (56:56.17)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (56:57.335)
And that's not real love, actually. That's not why we came here. And we want to be with someone who chooses us every day. That's what we really want. And it's a
Romi (56:59.451)
No.
Romi (57:06.812)
Well, and that's what we're doing right now, Aaron, is we're saying, we've said, you're gay, go be gay. This is about to be your gayest year, boo. You've hid for that long. He and I are about to be so fucking gay, I can't even handle it. Just so that my boy can like, I need I need my pony boy to live his best gay life, right? So I'm about to, I'm about to show him gay because I'd I've I've done there done it. I've done the gay, right? So I've done there did it. So
Erin Patten (57:17.867)
Like
SafeHaven (57:19.442)
We talked about it in the last call, but it was not recorded, thank God. Okay.
Erin Patten (57:29.387)
Yeah, been there, done that.
SafeHaven (57:29.638)
Dunder dimmit, Dunder dimmit.
Romi (57:32.837)
But what we're doing is we're choosing to love each other, not by ownership. He does not own me, I am not his wife. He is not my husband. I do not own him. We are connected without illegal paperwork. We are connected without you know the the religion by choice. We can't fucking leave each other if we wanted to. So we might as well have fun and be gay, right? Because there's clearly no separation.
Erin Patten (57:45.161)
Yeah.
My choice.
Erin Patten (57:53.055)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (57:53.286)
Mm-hmm.
Romi (57:57.806)
That kind of love is some shit that like that's love. Do you know what I mean? Like, I choose to do this life with you because I've I've you've revealed it and I see you. I see you and I love you. And him for me, he knows I am not to be caged, right? And every time I have tried to do it, it doesn't work because it's not who I am. It's my own trauma trying to create things that I have believed I needed to be. I do best free.
SafeHaven (58:04.561)
you
SafeHaven (58:11.792)
No.
Erin Patten (58:27.987)
I love it. I love it. So I I I think it's perfect timing because I want you to define in this in your own words, like because it's yours, what is this relationship to you now? Like how do you name it?
Romi (58:28.098)
I do best free.
SafeHaven (58:43.819)
Name it. that's interesting. Are we branding it now? Let's do this.
Romi (58:46.832)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (58:47.229)
I I let's let's try at least throw some stuff out there.
SafeHaven (58:49.776)
Okay, well, you know, our song is, our... Well, our song is The Scientist by The Great Coldplay. you know, if you ever want to, if you ever want to know our relationship, you know, no one said it would be this hard. No one said, yeah, okay, you know, okay, let's take, yeah, exactly. But anyway, no, I'm gonna let her, I'm gonna let her, I'll let her give the name for it. I'll let her do it.
Romi (58:50.338)
She said let's try.
Erin Patten (58:52.311)
Yeah.
Romi (58:59.46)
That's yes. Let's take it back to the start.
Erin Patten (59:08.605)
Yeah. What is this relationship to you now? I mean, you've called it the twin flames, you said the soulmates, we're doing life together, best friends.
Romi (59:17.006)
That I honestly just think that we are in love, right? We are two people in love. We are not married. We are not in that traditional romantic relationship. He is gay. I am me. I'll probably have a million lovers till I die. I think it's illegal for me to get married again. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think I'm allowed to get married anymore. I don't think it's part of the law. yeah.
Erin Patten (59:20.608)
Mm-hmm.
SafeHaven (59:32.496)
Chewbacca. Chewbacca.
SafeHaven (59:37.625)
Can I say my famous line really quickly? Can I say my famous line? Can I just say it? Okay. There was a time I was dating her, right? And I just made this joke. It was like a really quick joke at the right moment. I said, have you slept with everybody in Los Angeles? And she just went, more women than men, but yes. I mean, that's my girl. It was fantastic. Sorry. Yes. So she will. No, absolutely. No, absolutely. No, absolutely. So yeah.
Romi (59:55.949)
And in that moment he was like, I love you. And I'm like, and that's where we are, you know, and that's who we are. I think, Aaron, the biggest thing that we are attempting to do, and I'll say this in Gemma, you can bounce off this. We just came back together. So just for reference, this is all very fresh and new. Yeah, June 5th.
SafeHaven (01:00:11.96)
June 5th, June 5th was her out and then Father's Day was when I, so very recent.
Erin Patten (01:00:16.106)
Yeah.
Romi (01:00:16.179)
My last chapter of my book is going up right before this episode is airing, right? It's happening this week. This is a very big week for us. This is the first time we've ever stated that he's gay and shared that about our relationship. Man many people have said he's gay or they know he's gay because I mean hello, but my boy didn't know he was gay, okay? And he never said it for himself. And that's his words he gets to say. So that that is being said here. And now this, once this is really just
SafeHaven (01:00:23.768)
Mm-hmm.
Romi (01:00:43.261)
opened up and we are gonna work on all the beautiful things we're working on. We're writing a d you know, we're writing a television series that we're working on off of my book. We're writing his perspective. Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:00:52.365)
Yeah, and that's also great. I mean, I don't mean to promote myself here. No, no, but I don't. Right. Mm hmm.
Erin Patten (01:00:54.527)
Let's talk about that because I don't even have to ask my questions because you just go right into them. Because Breathe Mihat, as we know, it's like rising star on Substack, like best seller paid subscription. Like it's like blowing up. People want to know about you. And so what has it meant to write your story in your way and essentially have your readers have the reception be like, like this? Like I wanna want you to talk about that.
SafeHaven (01:01:04.5)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, number one. was number one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Romi (01:01:23.817)
Yeah, I I wrote it and you know this. I wrote it through a lot of pain through all the shit that we went through many, many days, whatever. I I put it in a book, right? Anyway, when I released it, I did not know what was gonna happen. I did not know how it was gonna be received. I'm used to being ripped apart. I was assuming I would be ripped apart, you know, because it is so raw and vulnerable and and misunderstood has been a story of my life. But I just needed to do it. I felt like I needed to do this for me, for my daughter, I needed to just get it out. And there's this beautiful thing about
SafeHaven (01:01:37.132)
Okay. you
Hmm hmm hmm.
Romi (01:01:54.131)
writing the trauma periods and releasing it and then letting that shit go, right? And then it's like, take it or leave it. This is the fucking this is the beautiful mess that I am, right? Take it or leave it. I'm releasing these chapters in this and being able to move on. Well then it was just slowly being received. I have no social media that was large, right? We know I deleted it. I went off grid. And God has a beautiful way of having just people start to share and read it and resonate with it and understand it. And it picked up and I mean
When it hit number one, we were talking. When it hit bestseller list, I had a check by my name for the bestseller list. I had to Google what that check was because I was trying to figure out why the fuck is there a check near my name? And then I Google it and it's like I had to find out and it was like, you're bestseller. And I was like, crying, like, what? I'm on the bestseller list. And so it evolved in the way that I evolved. If I'm in love with you, we're getting married, right? If I wrote a book, I want a fucking TV show, right? Like, I don't move slow. So
SafeHaven (01:02:27.344)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
SafeHaven (01:02:35.02)
Listen, when you're a best seller, you gotta find out what that means.
SafeHaven (01:02:50.014)
No doubt, no doubt. That's Rummy. No doubt, no doubt.
Romi (01:02:54.277)
It went from, hey, I wrote this truth, but guess what? You also have your truth. Let's write your truth. He's so talented. He's not someone's brother or son. He is part of the family. He's part of his blood. He is a director. He is a writer. He went to fucking school for this. He's been honored for this. Let us not negate this beautiful, talented gay man that I'm in love with and let him write and do what he does best, right? Like stop fucking hiding. So
Erin Patten (01:03:06.333)
Yeah, absolutely.
Erin Patten (01:03:16.393)
Yeah. That part. Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:03:20.307)
Mm.
Romi (01:03:23.939)
him and we've joined in terms of pitching Breathe Miha now as a television show and then he is writing the screenplay and or the episodes and the pilot. Yes. And then direct it.
SafeHaven (01:03:30.409)
Well, I'll write the pilot first, which is obviously the big thing. And then we're going to get it. Right. I'll direct it. And then I'll write the first season pilot. And then, but the cool thing is also, which is Rummy's idea, you know, we have her story, right? But then imagine like season two is my perspective back to what I said, the boy in the closet with the dress raised in Hollywood. Then he meets this girl. So it's more like, wow, you get these two. It's really wild.
Romi (01:03:54.739)
We want, yeah, we want the reader or the audience in whatever artistic way that we tell the story to be able to see that my reality was my truth. And you can't take that, and nor is he. But his was his truth. And his holds space to so many men and people that have gone through what he went through. And imagine understanding what was happening both with both of our traumas while we're together. Because that is so much of what coexists with life and relationships right now. Two people trying to hold space for love.
SafeHaven (01:04:18.537)
True. It actually reminds me of something that I love very dearly. Not that I expect my season that I write to be worse. But there was a book that Dennis Rodman wrote many years ago called Bad As I Want To Be. the ex-girlfriend wrote, no, an ex-girlfriend wrote a book called Worse Than He Says He Is. So I mean, really, you put that in context. It's like, yes! I love Dennis. But yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:04:19.529)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:04:31.838)
Yeah. I love Dennis.
Erin Patten (01:04:37.082)
Yeah.
Romi (01:04:41.882)
Basically it though, but like as somebody who has been, I want to say this like, as somebody who has been somebody abusive to me, which James has been abusive to me, to hear him let me share it, right? To let him to have a man give me the space to share it and not call me crazy for it, has been the biggest blessing and gift of love I have ever experienced in my life from a man. Because
SafeHaven (01:04:51.265)
I have a thousand percent.
Romi (01:05:12.658)
That isn't something that you get. You know this, Aaron. Like you get called crazy. You get called all the names. But for someone to say, no, no, no, you get to s you get to share that. That is true. That happened. And I'm not gonna like touch that. That's your truth, right? But then to also be able to like hear from the person doing that what was causing that, we don't get to hear that enough. And that is the human experience, right? That we are like.
Erin Patten (01:05:41.023)
That's the healing is that that he's been able to come back to you in his in his healed state, fully conscious and fully aware of what he's done. Like, yeah, you can call it abuse, but at the same time, you're looking at a man who's been abusing himself for 50 years. So of course he's gonna project that back on you because it's not personal. It's just his own beingness. And so yes, and so for him to be able to sit here in ownership and full accountability and honesty.
Romi (01:05:42.49)
That's the healing.
SafeHaven (01:05:42.849)
No.
Romi (01:05:55.096)
Yes, yes.
SafeHaven (01:05:55.419)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the self-hatred is very, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. No.
Romi (01:06:03.536)
Aaron, that part. Yes.
Erin Patten (01:06:10.768)
It's all we ask of each other. We're not we don't want to be treated perfectly. We can only do unto others as we do unto self. Period. And just and so we can't do unto others if we do on self wrong. We're gonna do everybody wrong.
Romi (01:06:13.325)
Yes.
SafeHaven (01:06:14.907)
Yeah.
Romi (01:06:18.456)
Yep. Yep.
Romi (01:06:23.574)
No. You you nailed it with he was hurting him more than he was even hurting me. And so imagine how bad I was hurting. Imagine how bad that is, like he said, losing his fucking life over this shit. You know, losing his life. Losing this one person that loves him unconditionally. Right? And and and the opportunities he now is gonna have just with.
Erin Patten (01:06:29.481)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:06:35.528)
Yes, he said this.
Yes.
Erin Patten (01:06:44.862)
Yes.
Romi (01:06:50.53)
What it feels like to walk around in the world as you, as openly you wear your fucking hat, boo, wear that rainbow thing, go talk to that hot man. I like just to be your that's like a breath you want to talk about He you know, I just it's like I think p ye I I am when this is out and we're out it it like, you know.
SafeHaven (01:06:53.932)
No.
You just want me to go surfing. I know that you want me to go with Goldilocks. We talked about this. All right.
Romi (01:07:16.83)
My heart is gonna fucking explode through my it's gonna explode to see him as the person I fell in love with when I was twenty. It's gonna fucking I'm it's gonna be overwhelming for me in the next year to watch him.
SafeHaven (01:07:31.108)
Again, love you.
Erin Patten (01:07:32.935)
And I wanna just say for everyone that's listening and watching, like through all the lies, through all the hiding, through all the
The abuses that we've named, through all the all the things, the the Hollywood, the the glitz and glamour that we all idolize and celebrate when in reality the truth is uglier than we can even imagine. That, you know, that through all this hiding that there is there is love underneath it, there can be truth underneath it once we stop the hiding. And so I want to come back to you, James, around this. And I want you to just say from this space, like, what is freedom?
SafeHaven (01:07:46.212)
you
SafeHaven (01:07:54.686)
my gosh.
SafeHaven (01:08:04.486)
Right.
Erin Patten (01:08:11.124)
feel like for you now?
SafeHaven (01:08:13.771)
Well, mean, you know, I kind of brought it up before, you know, with getting up so early. I mean, to go outside and stare at the sky, to hear the birds in the morning, to everything just seems more alive. I mean, I'm gardening now.
You know, I have a gardener and he's wonderful, but I'm actually like taking the time to like really prune the flowers and to put flowers down my house. I'm just, I'm just, I'm more with nature. I'm just more enjoying myself. And as she knows, I'm surfing again. When I was a young boy, my favorite place in the world has always been Hawaii. And thank you, mom. Thank you so much. remember this moment when she said, you know, you should start surfing. said, okay. So I started to learn how to surf. I hadn't served in decades. And recently I started surfing again.
Romi (01:08:41.922)
Okay.
Erin Patten (01:08:57.49)
Wow.
SafeHaven (01:08:59.766)
And it took only a couple of waves and I'm like, my gosh, I remember how to do this. so I've been surfing a lot now at sunrise and all that. And I just feel completely free. feel a big one is this. And it's something I can't speak for other men or women or whatever, but it's, there's that thing that haunts you during the day, voices, right? Those voices that kind of speak a million things, whatever those voices you want to call they are. And what I feel right now is the voice is going.
There's no voice. So I just wake up going, all right, so today what I want to do is this, okay, okay. Okay. And then I also have what I said, I have such a love for nature that I play with nature. I mean, I went to a park not too long ago and I had a big, like, you know, a bag of nuts and berries. And I'm just like, you know, looking around and I'm staring at these trees and looking at the birds and I literally feel on my foot like that. I looked out, my God, it was a squirrel. And I went, okay, just, I don't want to make a scene. Just, let's just, okay.
Erin Patten (01:09:30.17)
Mm.
SafeHaven (01:09:59.764)
And I just reached in the bag and like just took some nuts, put them on the ground. And he was calm, took the nuts. But then, all of a sudden, all these other squirrels were like, what's going on over there? What is this? And so I didn't want to make a scene, so I dropped the nuts and ran away. I get into that. Like, I get into that. Like, I play in that. I love that. So it's really just being a part of the world, not the sitting in traffic world, which gets really boring. Yeah. Yeah. The world.
Erin Patten (01:10:13.393)
Ha ha
Romi (01:10:22.038)
I think that's like the biggest note what you just said though, Jem, is being a part of the world. You're able to walk out and be a part of the world.
SafeHaven (01:10:29.568)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is hiding is sitting in a bedroom and sleeping till noon and going why do I want to get up today? Why do I want to talk to anybody that I don't I'm just gonna stay here as I once said to run my god, the best. my god. So that's you're gonna make funny me love it I used to think you know what it's like like, you know, like how much I miss you like I fall on the ground I'm poor little white boys on the ground in a multi-million dollar house crying. You couldn't just pick up the phone and call me You couldn't just call me. No, I'm a dude. I'm so depressed. I'm overwhelmed with grief. I can't it was hilarious
Romi (01:10:41.599)
Yeah, yeah.
Romi (01:10:52.499)
Yeah, yeah. He
Yeah. And he literally one time was like, you don't understand what it was like to not have you or call you. I was in my room in my house crying so dark and depressed and I miss you. I like, you don't have a fucking phone? You don't have a fucking phone. I feel so bad that your your life and your big grand home, well your self yeah, your self like
SafeHaven (01:11:10.122)
On my knees, on my knees, no, no, no.
In fact, the cell phone is so far away from me now, it looks like out of reach. can't,
Romi (01:11:22.279)
Fucking and I'm over here working like fifty jobs to raise a kid and feed her while these fucking assholes treat me like shit and he's in his house, his mansion, just going The world is so hard and life is just and I don't I don't know how to use a phone to text the woman the woman I love. It's like shut the fuck up.
SafeHaven (01:11:35.12)
No, but that's Romy again. You notice that she says, notice that she says from day one, she's like, I see your bullshit. It's the same thing. Like, poor little, really? You couldn't, like that's Romy. She's like, I'm sorry, you couldn't.
Erin Patten (01:11:35.146)
Mm-hmm.
Romi (01:11:44.817)
Yeah, what was I supposed to do? my god, honey, you didn't know how to use the phone for five years. I'm so sorry. No.
SafeHaven (01:11:50.696)
So good.
Erin Patten (01:11:51.327)
Well, we talked about it. We talked about what that is. And so for Romy, 'cause thank you so much, James. That was a beautiful response. Yeah, I really resonate a lot. I resonate so much with the nature piece because 'cause it it in me I I'm I'm going through my own shit too. Like the life we life in right now. And there are moments where you can't where you don't want to leave the house. And so I deeply resonate with
Romi (01:12:02.075)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:12:02.191)
Romi (01:12:05.895)
Yep. Yeah.
Romi (01:12:11.42)
Yes.
SafeHaven (01:12:11.868)
No.
Erin Patten (01:12:12.988)
Me just going for my hikes, like just going for a walk around Ladyburg, just going for a walk around my neighborhood, it takes effort and work sometimes because the emotional weight can be heavy, what we carry. And what you've been through, what you're going through is not light work. You're doing generational healing, obviously. Your mother, your father, your sister, like you've been in an industry that you it compounded trauma. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So you're doing the work.
Romi (01:12:14.78)
Yes.
Romi (01:12:23.463)
Yes.
SafeHaven (01:12:25.547)
And that's those voices. That's the voices.
Romi (01:12:27.357)
Yeah.
Romi (01:12:36.477)
Yes. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:12:41.067)
And I want to to take this question to you, Romy, because I and I've asked you this before, but now that we've had this context, what would you say to the woman listening who's still holding a story that she's afraid to tell?
Romi (01:12:54.595)
It's so different now that you asked me that, which is interesting. You know what I mean? It's so different in this moment, which is so fascinating. it's interesting because so many women have written me from my book and been like, I want to share my story. I want to write. I don't know how to talk about my life or my story. And and I've told every person who wrote me, I'm like, go write it. I don't care if you're releasing a book or writing on Substack. I don't mean for that reason. I mean
Erin Patten (01:12:58.302)
Yeah. Yeah. I connect to it.
Romi (01:13:19.269)
Go write it. Even Jamie writing his out through the season two that we're gonna work on is gonna be so incredibly powerful for him. So I don't care if it becomes a show or doesn't become a show, write the fucking thing. Right, of course it is. Okay, calm down, honey. Listen, bird cage. So I would tell, I would tell any woman right now, if you are living your life, and I'd say this to my fucking best friend here: if you are living your life with lies that are inside of you and stories.
Erin Patten (01:13:25.514)
I don't know.
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:13:29.128)
It's a Broadway show, it's a musical, okay.
Erin Patten (01:13:32.018)
And basically.
Romi (01:13:48.911)
That are inside of you because you feel like you don't have value. If you share them or put them out in the world, it will show up in your life in so many ways that you're not even aware of. Why do you think I had so many fucking marriages, right? I had shit in me I wasn't ready to face and didn't feel loved and valued as well. If I were to share it authentically to the world, and what would they do with it? Well, the freedom that I have right now, you guys, is I said it. You know it.
You choose what you want to do with it. I love me. And the most intimate love a person can have is when you do show all those parts and they see you and hold space for you. I don't want someone holding space for a curated version of me. Ever, ever again. And Erin, you know this from a previous, you know, trauma I just came out of. I will not pretend to be something to make other people feel safe.
ever again and nor do I want the people in my life to do that. And that is for you, Erin. That is for Jamie. Those are the people that I love deeply. So what I would say to any woman is like, you want real love, you want to really be seen, like we all say we want to be seen. Then fucking let people see you.
SafeHaven (01:14:56.281)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Patten (01:15:00.958)
That part. And first allow yourself to be seen by yourself. And that's what games are going to be. Mm-hmm. You gotta see yourself first.
Romi (01:15:05.302)
Right there, that part. Yes. If you can't see yourself naked with your with your shit, how do you think the world or anyone you love is going to? Right? Like, and and as parents, right? How is my daughter supposed to see me hold authentic space for me if I'm not showing her who I really am?
SafeHaven (01:15:26.701)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Romi (01:15:27.19)
She's gonna get to fall in love with Jamie again in a very different way over the next, you know, half of our life because she's gonna get to see him who he is. And that's gonna be a beautiful gift for her. It's gonna be a beautiful gift for her to be able to see me as who I am. And it's very sad that our children, that's what we are products of, had to watch unhealed people walking around through the world trying to be all these things. You know, it doesn't help our kids. Ever yeah.
Erin Patten (01:15:35.849)
Yes.
Erin Patten (01:15:42.505)
Yes.
SafeHaven (01:15:46.704)
Hmm.
SafeHaven (01:15:51.833)
Mm hmm. I can't even I mean, there's no words for that. That's one of the reasons why I told you got the braces. One of the reasons why, you know, I haven't started this work. But I mean, I've talked about, I really want to help a lot of people. I'm talking a lot of people. Okay, it's eight to 80. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like there's just you're not healed. Like whatever it is, we're all doing it's back to the thing of like, you know, when you realize the problem is not yourself, like you're working through this world, but it's not this isn't you. You don't even know who you are yet. You know,
Erin Patten (01:15:54.282)
For everybody else but themselves.
Romi (01:15:56.865)
It doesn't help anybody.
Romi (01:16:07.33)
And you will, and you will.
Romi (01:16:18.868)
Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:16:20.244)
Right. Right.
SafeHaven (01:16:21.845)
Or you forgot who you were, know, depending. Either you know who you were and you've lost it, or you never met that person, depending.
Erin Patten (01:16:28.158)
Yeah, a little bit of both.
Romi (01:16:30.57)
There was a quote this morning that said, like, you remember when you were a kid? And like you know kids, right? We have kids, right? You but you've got Frankie, right? Everybody knows but like they don't care.
SafeHaven (01:16:43.85)
did we lose her? Okay. Is that a battery issue? Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.
Erin Patten (01:16:46.985)
Just start over. Maybe someone tried to call you.
Romi (01:16:50.148)
Is it okay there it's recording? Yeah, someone did. Is it okay? It says it's uploading okay. It says it's uploading but it's recording, Erin. Is that okay?
Erin Patten (01:16:54.12)
Yeah, just start over.
SafeHaven (01:16:58.378)
Yeah, whatever.
Erin Patten (01:17:00.924)
Yes, yes.
Romi (01:17:02.832)
Okay. So basically the quote this morning said, as a kid, they don't have a problem telling you flat out, like, I don't want to be around you. You're not fun. I don't like you. I don't like the way they they don't care. They're not overthinking all the complexities or the re the repercussions of what's gonna happen. There's something about when we get back to that space where we go, This is who I am. No, I don't like that. No, I don't want that.
SafeHaven (01:17:11.894)
That's right. That's absolutely right.
Erin Patten (01:17:12.519)
Absolutely.
SafeHaven (01:17:18.098)
No. No. No.
SafeHaven (01:17:25.086)
And by the way, I just want to add to that, I want to add to that really quickly. That's what I love about children. You know, I mean, there's a lot of reasons to love children, but it's the directness. I mean, we're taught like, you know, honey, that's not a nice thing to say. What are you talking about? I don't like this person. You know, it's like, well, you're not supposed to say that. Why not? I don't like this person. you wish things were more direct immediately. Like just like, no, I don't want to go to his party. Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:17:46.249)
And I wanna bring a Bible verse to this. And I'm so glad you brought the Bible in this, James. And I Romy's on her path too, but the the Bible quotes, you know, remain like a child. God asks us to remain like a child, to remain in this state of curiosity, to remain in this state of setting healthy boundaries for ourselves, or remaining in a state of playfulness. Like you said that, like all you want to get up in this play, and somehow this world conditions us of the opposite.
SafeHaven (01:17:57.322)
Yeah. Yeah.
Romi (01:18:00.601)
Yes.
SafeHaven (01:18:05.247)
Yes.
Romi (01:18:05.337)
Yes.
Erin Patten (01:18:11.122)
Of to take things seriously, of to put ourselves in boxes to please other people, to do as I say, not as I tell you.
SafeHaven (01:18:13.106)
Yeah. Well, I'm to take it even further. If you don't get back to square one, what does that mean? Like this little child, you're not getting into heaven. That's a very specific quote. And it's like, excuse me, I'm sorry. Who missed that one? You know, so it's real.
Erin Patten (01:18:22.552)
Right.
Erin Patten (01:18:25.937)
Yeah.
Romi (01:18:27.425)
goal, Aaron, right now is to have so much fucking fun. We said to each other, you know, we talk every day, we talk all the time. That is how we are. We are constantly connected, he and I. And we have said this round, no more, no more trauma, no more pain, no more sad day. We just let's just fucking have fun. Let's enjoy our lives. Let's make a beautiful life. Let's be creative. Let's tell our stories. I pray and I know that if it's supposed to, but we'll be able to help somebody.
Erin Patten (01:18:31.892)
Mm-hmm.
SafeHaven (01:18:42.866)
Yeah,
SafeHaven (01:18:55.187)
and
Romi (01:18:55.199)
As well with our truth, and that is our goal. And in that, let's just fucking smile because this has been too heavy. It's been too heavy.
SafeHaven (01:19:01.14)
Well, think, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna grab my battery in second. So if I leave for a second, I'm just grabbing just to make sure my phone doesn't die. But before I leave for just a quick half, like 10 seconds, I just wanted to add this to that point, which is, you say, because I know Romy, you know, let's just state the fact, you know, I've left so many times, what proves I'm not going to do it again. And what's important? Well, no, it's what's important is that that pivot in me, she's never heard before. That pivot is a different person.
It's like, wait a second, like, I don't want to be that person prior. I'm not that person prior. I'm going back to square one. I'm going back to the person that was whatever. That's the first time she's ever heard me talk like that. And I'm holding myself to that first, but I'm just, you know, I'm holding that awareness of like, where are you going? You're not going anywhere. You're there. Like you're there now. You're not, you're not, what do you need to escape James? What are you escaping from? You know, there's nothing to escape. So.
Erin Patten (01:19:42.888)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:19:50.206)
Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:19:58.015)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:20:00.626)
I'll be right back. Give me 10 seconds.
Romi (01:20:00.65)
I think I think that that that is that is huge for him, Aaron. But I want to say this too because people are gonna ask and question with the book, like you're back with him, why'd she go back? You know what I mean? Why'd she forgive him? There's that constant, like, you know, she she's I want to say this too, and and I'm in a different space where even
Erin Patten (01:20:00.67)
A hundred.
Romi (01:20:20.188)
If let's just say hypothetically he were to leave me again, right? I'm good.
SafeHaven (01:20:20.914)
you
Erin Patten (01:20:26.29)
It's very different this time 'cause you kinda got the resolution. There's there's a lot of healing already.
Romi (01:20:28.248)
I'm good like
Not yeah, I'm not gonna break and fall apart in the way that I have because I know too much now and I know the truth that like I'm not walking into this on eggshells going, my god, what if he leaves me again? It's just you wanna be here, I wanna be here. Good, great. You don't want to be here? Yeah, handle your shit, right? Handle your shit. You don't want to be here, you go do your lies then. And I don't believe in my heart that that's our path. And and and he knows what you can do, run away and call me in a year.
SafeHaven (01:20:36.886)
Correct. Okay.
Erin Patten (01:20:37.822)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:20:48.358)
If you can handle it, yeah, you'll honor your choice. You're honoring choice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:20:59.726)
Right. And I just want to emphasize that because I agree with everything she said and I feel the same way. mean, again, it's almost sounds impossible to talk like this, but we're just covering all bases. I wouldn't come back. There would be no coming back. There would be to be like, all right, that's it. This is ridiculous. So we're both aware of that now.
Romi (01:21:01.812)
Like, come on, let's just start the light.
Erin Patten (01:21:16.444)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, before we get off, I have the lightning round, which I love. And it's very quick questions, like one two word answers. And so the first one is one word, who is the other person to you? Go.
Romi (01:21:33.609)
Who was the other person to you?
Erin Patten (01:21:34.526)
Who who is the other person to you in one word?
Romi (01:21:38.429)
Like, okay, he's my gem.
SafeHaven (01:21:41.069)
Yeah, that's it. I would say the same thing. I would say the same thing.
Erin Patten (01:21:42.718)
That's perfect. I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you're gonna say that. And you said this earlier, but I'd have to ask it again 'cause just in case he w didn't touch it. But the song that belongs to your friendship.
Romi (01:21:49.278)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:21:50.156)
yes.
Coldplay, scientist. Hands down.
Romi (01:21:54.74)
Scientists.
Erin Patten (01:21:55.75)
Okay, great. the thing you know now that you wish you'd known at the wedding.
Romi (01:22:02.025)
How fucking gay he is.
SafeHaven (01:22:06.191)
I would second that, because I wasn't aware either. But I will say one thing, could you probably not add this even though you're in the lightning round? I want to just call me out on something, just call me out on something for fun, okay, let's just do it. So many years ago, even though I had been traumatized, as I told you, I went to a Cher concert, and it's one of my favorite moments, she knows this. And she comes out of the sky, like out of the rafters, like in a totally nude gown.
Romi (01:22:07.028)
Ha shit, man.
Erin Patten (01:22:08.517)
Yeah, okay.
SafeHaven (01:22:32.527)
coming right at us and I fell into the arms of a gay man. I remember falling, I had the blue cowboy hat, he had the pink one, okay stop. And I fell right into the arms of him and I just remember being so overwhelmed by Cheryl, right? It was almost like, I'm awakening you, I'm awake, you know, okay. And I just remember literally like he just went, don't fight her. And he like lightly just let me fall back onto the ground into his, it was just like this, totally like she's coming right at me and it was just amazing. The reason I bring that up is because Remy knows my weakness.
She left this out, but she knows where I'm going. So, you know, it's my 50th birthday and you know, we're just doing our thing. She has this amazing thing. We did a photo shoot that weekend. We went boating and like that. What is it called in Austin? Is it a canal? Yeah, beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's really fun. Played all our great songs. But prior to that, she takes me to a lunch and the lunch just happens to have a drag queen contest. And I'm sitting there going, that's unique. That's cool. That's great. No big deal. And she's like, no, no, no, you're going to dance. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not going to dance. We're just.
We'll just get the brunch or whatever and we'll get the hell out of here. But then something happens to me. Now listen you, I know I won the contest, but then she was like, yeah, but you're not gay at all. I know I'm not gay at all. I just, can't.
Romi (01:23:38.174)
Baby boy was dancing on all the tables, flopping his thing.
Romi (01:23:45.904)
Yeah, that's the best part is he went and danced like this and was so fucking gay and I was like, yeah, I'll marry you, my straight husband. I mean
SafeHaven (01:23:53.677)
Listen, but my point is she knows it about me. So I just want to put that out there that she knows my weakness. Okay, go ahead. Okay, lightning round. Go ahead. Start.
Romi (01:23:54.65)
Okay.
Erin Patten (01:23:57.151)
Yes. Right around Okay, this is the last one. And finish this one. Each of you, okay. Love for me now is
Romi (01:23:58.638)
Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going.
SafeHaven (01:24:07.776)
Authenticity.
Romi (01:24:08.229)
True.
Erin Patten (01:24:10.526)
Authenticity and truth. Bam. Boom, bam, bop. I love this. We did it, y'all.
SafeHaven (01:24:13.367)
Hmm.
Romi (01:24:16.817)
We did it guys! Baby, you did it!
SafeHaven (01:24:18.508)
I just have to say one last thing. No, no, no, you have to put this in no matter what this has to go out there because I've always said this about the Rome's term. Now, I'm not putting down my down for this, but I'm putting down, let's just say, all the men in my life who never told me the full quote. Okay, that just is very important. Most people have heard the first part of this quote, okay? The face that launched a thousand ships and burnt the towers of Ilium. They know that part, okay? But they really know the first part.
Erin Patten (01:24:22.42)
Okay, okay, okay.
Romi (01:24:35.619)
I know the quote.
SafeHaven (01:24:47.179)
The face that launches thousands of courses. Helen of Troy, suppose, is most beautiful woman alive. And men would fight, you know, entire battalions to get her. My dad did not tell me this. Other men didn't tell me this. This is Romy coming back in my life. This is 2022. This is us back together after 20 years, hindsight full speed. I got the love of my life. Here we go. And all of a sudden I look up the quote and I go, what? Wait a second here. The second half is Romy. It's totally Romy. And here's the second half. So I'll say the whole thing. The face that launched a thousand ships.
and burnt the towers of Iliad. Sweet Helen, make me immortal with a kiss. Suck forth my soul, see where it flies. That's what Romi does for me. There you go. And I mean, in my life, out of my life, she's always done that for me. Always. I just have to think about her. This could be 10 years ago. Just think about her. Like, just think about her. And all of a I'm like, I'm back. I'm back.
Romi (01:25:28.085)
He has always said that. That has always been his quote.
Romi (01:25:43.244)
We I wanna finish on this just because for everyone, I have not been to a lot of big, you know, parties in general, gay parties in general since I was on the L word and we will be attending Dinosaur in October together. My very dear friend Rose Garcia owns it and she has invited she has invited us to be there and to hold space for Jamie to have that space to be there as well. And so it's a really safe space for us right now to be able to just be
SafeHaven (01:25:59.945)
Rose, Rose.
Romi (01:26:12.739)
Fully fucking ourselves and in a community that I pray welcomes and loves him, you know. you know, and and that we can just really like let loose and dance and be about love and be about who we are. And so I just want to give my friend a shout out because she she she owned it, she invited us, she called me during my number one on Substack and said, you know, she was proud of me and she loved me. She's the only person from my show other than Casey.
Erin Patten (01:26:19.998)
You already know.
SafeHaven (01:26:41.46)
Mm, mm, mm, mm.
Romi (01:26:41.858)
That has reached out and been very supportive of what I'm doing. So I just want to shout that out and say we cannot wait. So if y'all see us out after all this, after this week, if you see us out after this, please know we are going to be on another level because the lives have been removed and we are ready. So
SafeHaven (01:27:01.358)
I don't
Erin Patten (01:27:02.462)
Yes. 'Cause and now you're doing God's work, you know, and all God has told us to do is to be ourselves and to love. That's it. That's simple. It takes us this long and this much work to get here. But once we do Yes. And I wanna just thank all of you who are listening to this show who have made it this far. We very much appreciate you being here. And I don't know, James, if you have anything to share about how people can reach out to you or connect with you. I definitely have real information.
Romi (01:27:05.643)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep, that's it. That's it.
Romi (01:27:15.489)
Dude, we almost killed each other getting there, but we got there. Shit. So
SafeHaven (01:27:15.984)
Thank
SafeHaven (01:27:31.156)
Well, mean, look, I know I'm like being like projecting here, but you know, we're gonna do the show as Remy said brilliantly. I'm putting together right now it's gonna happen next couple months. I'm gonna be doing a podcast. Remy of course will be right there with me. So that will be a big deal. Also, you know, obviously, you know, I hope to do speaking engagements and stuff like that. So.
I think the only thing I can say right now, because I don't have a social media at the moment and all that is.
Romi (01:27:55.998)
If anyone wants to say anything to him, reach out to me. I will get the questions to him. Yeah. So at Romy, I I think it's hair and beauty underscore hair and beauty. you'll put it on there. But yeah. If you have a if you have questions for him, he'll answer and I'll I'll share them. So if anyone right now, at this moment of where we are, has questions directly for him, I talk to this man on the on the minute every day, right? So I'll get the answer for you. So
SafeHaven (01:27:58.938)
Reach for, can you give your Instagram?
Erin Patten (01:28:07.058)
It's in the show notes, guys.
SafeHaven (01:28:09.478)
Yeah, okay. Yeah, because I'll answer through roaming. I'll answer through a road.
SafeHaven (01:28:23.364)
Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
Erin Patten (01:28:24.624)
Awesome. Awesome. Great. Well, I have been, and I've said this to Romy from the moment we were hiking and she proposed this. I'm honored to hold space for Romy and James. James and Romy. You guys are are like family to me. I love you guys with all my heart. And I and I felt like, and I have to say it, that me and Romy manifested this when we talked about she was she said, I'm ready, I have nothing left to hide.
Romi (01:28:33.55)
yeah.
SafeHaven (01:28:40.978)
Love you too, Aaron. Love you too.
Romi (01:28:52.522)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:28:52.642)
And we talked about this and she was and I asked her about you, Jays. I asked her about you and she started crying. And yeah, yes, so yeah, so I am just it the and maybe just shows you when things are meant to be, how the timing aligns, everything aligns. So I want everyone that sure, sure.
Romi (01:28:59.282)
sent him the podcast.
SafeHaven (01:29:09.67)
I think I mean, it's one thing I'll say say and then we'll give you last word here. of course, it's I can't say that enough. mean, I know people say that all the time, but there's something that happens when things align. I don't even know what I'm talking about because it's still too fresh to me. But it's just yeah, exactly. It's just well, yeah, sure. That's what we should do. Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:29:25.663)
Yeah.
Romi (01:29:31.612)
Aaron Aaron did a podcast with me in the midst of releasing this. And and just for those of you that you can go watch it, I was in a very different space in my life then, because it's been it's been a journey. still really fragile, still really, really, really guarded in that moment. I feel very free right now, very free and very much myself right now. And he does that for me as well. So I wanna make sure he knows that. He brings that part out of me and I just start to feel like I'm I'm fucking alive. I can be me and I can fly, you know, but
Erin Patten (01:29:41.502)
Yeah.
Erin Patten (01:29:53.321)
Yeah.
SafeHaven (01:29:55.95)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Romi (01:29:59.751)
When you asked me about him in that interview, I got really emotional, as I do. And because it's it's hard for me. It's emotional for me. But I I wasn't angry, right? I wasn't angry and I could feel it come up with you, Aaron. I was like, fuck, what she's saying is real. And and I miss him and I love him. I'm not sharing this podcast of like anger towards him. I'm sharing it as in like I'm grieving. And so yeah, I think we did manifest that this was gonna, yeah, we were gonna come back because that triggered.
SafeHaven (01:30:18.532)
Okay.
Erin Patten (01:30:20.296)
Yeah, yeah. I miss him. Yeah.
Romi (01:30:28.11)
Me going into writing the chapters and went, I don't, I'm not a I miss him. I love him. We he's gotta be here. And then here we are.
Erin Patten (01:30:34.354)
Yes. Here we are. And for all you guys watching, this is what the healing work does. Like this is when we come back to ourselves does. And if any of you, if this resonates with you, this is the kind of work that I do. This is what I live for. This is my life purpose. Come visit me at my website, aaronpatton.com. And certainly stay in touch with the Meta Business Millennial Podcast. We will continue to have more amazing episodes just like this.
Romi (01:30:38.162)
So
Erin Patten (01:31:01.021)
And until then, much love and light, you guys. Peace.
SafeHaven (01:31:04.419)
Love and light. To all. Debut.
Romi (01:31:04.967)
Love you guys. Love ya. Okay, how do I
SafeHaven (01:31:09.144)
Hi.